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  #31  
Old 02-21-2008, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clrankin
In Virginia we don't have a 10 day waiting period. There are instant background checks... In most cases a response is returned in minutes, but in my case the last couple of times I purchased weapons I had to wait a couple of hours.

While I can see your point, B-Line, I still disagree with it. Having to wait for more than 15 minutes for a background check is unacceptable in my book. If the authorities can't process your request in that amount of time then they need to get out of the way and let the purchase go through. But then again I usually tend to value convenience over security.

The intent behind the second amendment, IMHO, is to allow for an armed populace that is capable of defending themselves. Having waiting periods, extensive background checks, stringent requirements, and limitations on the types and numbers of weapons that can be purchased interferes with and hinders this objective. I can perhaps see requiring a person to attend an NRA-sponsored firearms safety course before purchasing their first firearm (thus creating a barrier to entry)-- this is something we have to do in VA prior to applying for a CCW. But requiring much beyond this safety course and an instant background check is going too far, is too intrusive, and should not be permitted.
What? I disagree with that entirely. There is no reason, none, zippy, ziltch that you need a handgun in less then 10 days...unless of course your life is in immediate danger and in that case you should have called the police.
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  #32  
Old 02-21-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner
What? I disagree with that entirely. There is no reason, none, zippy, ziltch that you need a handgun in less then 10 days...unless of course your life is in immediate danger and in that case you should have called the police.
Why would you need a gun in 15 minutes? Heck...I buy things all the time online and wait for delivery. I can certainly wait 10 days for a handgun background check. Allowing guns to be purchased like chewing gum is not the right move and I'm all for gun rights for law abiding people.

There were a few others I had problems with as well but this one was the most egregious on the list.
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  #33  
Old 02-21-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLabGuy
Why would you need a gun in 15 minutes?
Simple. It's for convenience. If I'm at a gun show and pay for something that day I'd better darn well be able to take it home with me. Why should I have to wait 10 days to get something that I'm legally entitled to own? Mandatory 10 day waiting periods reduce the convenience factor of being able to go to a gun show, buy a weapon, have an instant check done on you, and be able to take the weapon home with you that day. (A 10 day waiting period would require a person to actually go to the gun shop more than a week later-- needlessly spending time, gas, and energy to get something that should have been given much earlier.)

The presumption seems to be that people aren't fit to own weapons, and that a background check is what makes them fit. It should be the other way around-- the presumption should be that you're fit to own/purchase said firearm, and that a background check disqualifies you. This logic, sadly, escapes most of the anti-gun crowd.

I think this is just a matter of placing priorities in different areas. As I stated earlier, I value convenience over security. (I presume that these two items exist on a spectrum, with convenience at one end and total security at the other. Since total security is an impossible objective, and since there is little value in having it in the first place, I value what is at least attainable and suggest that we create processes to add convenience where possible.)

There's no waiting period to buy a car, a set of steak knives, or a baseball bat-- all of which can inflict the same extent of damage to a person. There likewise should be no mandatory 10 day waiting period to buy a firearm. Require a firearm safety education course before purchasing the first gun. But beyond that, there is no reason to inconvenience a firearm purchaser any further.

I have yet to hear of a clear, convincing argument in favor of waiting periods. I haven't seen any statistics that show where communities are made any safer by instituting a waiting period. Waiting periods don't reduce crimes; it is just simple political fodder to make people feel safer. In this case perception doesn't match up with reality. There is no justification to essentially suspend a person's right to legally possess a firearm for 10 days just so the state can needlessly pry into a person's background. Time and attention should be spent catching and punishing the guilty, not persecuring the innocent law abiding citizens. (Keep in mind that those who go through the 10 day waiting period are obviously not criminals, as if they were they wouldn't bother legally purchasing a weapon at a gun shop to begin with.)
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  #34  
Old 02-21-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statdoc
I am curious why so many gun owners are so quick to excuse their potentially politically incorrect status ...
The Second Amendment has nothing to do with target shooting, bird hunting, or collecting historical tools. Although I do all those things, I keep weapons to defend my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from all who wish to take them from me and mine.
...well said, Doc!

As for the waiting period: I have no beef with a reasonable time frame for the BG check. Shouldn't take a month nor, should it necessarily happen in 10 mins. The "gov't" doesn't work quite like the gang on '24' does...

Hellsbells, the VA Statie revenue cops take more than 15 mins to run a license when they pinch a tourist driving
through the revenue state,

Last edited by motordavid; 02-21-2008 at 05:06 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-21-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clrankin
Simple. It's for convenience.
Easy enough to fix. The State should come up with a pre-approval process for gun show events. These are usually planned and advertised in advance. You could then get pre-approved so you can take your purchases home on the day you purchase them.

Here is why...It takes thought in advance. This removes the spur of the moment hand gun purchase for people who might make a reactionary decision to do someone harm. I realize that people could still plan an assault with a 10 day waiting period; however, psychological studies have shown this reduces violent acts for people who snap or might be susceptible to rash decisions.

Yes...People will always break the law and making guns inaccessible to law abiding citizens places them at risk. Criminals never obey the laws and you force law abiding citizens to break the law to protect themselves by making guns illegal. That said you need to be sensible and some laws and restrictions are necessary considering the society we live in and the differing levels of responsibility which exist among our citizens.
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  #36  
Old 02-21-2008, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clrankin
Simple. It's for convenience. If I'm at a gun show and pay for something that day I'd better darn well be able to take it home with me. Why should I have to wait 10 days to get something that I'm legally entitled to own? Mandatory 10 day waiting periods reduce the convenience factor of being able to go to a gun show, buy a weapon, have an instant check done on you, and be able to take the weapon home with you that day. (A 10 day waiting period would require a person to actually go to the gun shop more than a week later-- needlessly spending time, gas, and energy to get something that should have been given much earlier.)

The presumption seems to be that people aren't fit to own weapons, and that a background check is what makes them fit. It should be the other way around-- the presumption should be that you're fit to own/purchase said firearm, and that a background check disqualifies you. This logic, sadly, escapes most of the anti-gun crowd.

I think this is just a matter of placing priorities in different areas. As I stated earlier, I value convenience over security. (I presume that these two items exist on a spectrum, with convenience at one end and total security at the other. Since total security is an impossible objective, and since there is little value in having it in the first place, I value what is at least attainable and suggest that we create processes to add convenience where possible.)

There's no waiting period to buy a car, a set of steak knives, or a baseball bat-- all of which can inflict the same extent of damage to a person. There likewise should be no mandatory 10 day waiting period to buy a firearm. Require a firearm safety education course before purchasing the first gun. But beyond that, there is no reason to inconvenience a firearm purchaser any further.

I have yet to hear of a clear, convincing argument in favor of waiting periods. I haven't seen any statistics that show where communities are made any safer by instituting a waiting period. Waiting periods don't reduce crimes; it is just simple political fodder to make people feel safer. In this case perception doesn't match up with reality. There is no justification to essentially suspend a person's right to legally possess a firearm for 10 days just so the state can needlessly pry into a person's background. Time and attention should be spent catching and punishing the guilty, not persecuring the innocent law abiding citizens. (Keep in mind that those who go through the 10 day waiting period are obviously not criminals, as if they were they wouldn't bother legally purchasing a weapon at a gun shop to begin with.)
Well put...You have an excellent argument.
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2008, 05:31 PM
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we have a couple guns, however I'm not 21 yet so I can't buy ammo for handguns in the state of Florida and there are no handguns allowed in DC, so it is very prohibitive to going to the range (which I enjoy greatly). However, this being said I've already taken the concealed weapons classes and passed the test so the day I turn 21 I only have to get fingerprinted for the license.
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  #38  
Old 02-21-2008, 06:36 PM
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That SIG collection is QUITE the collection!!!!! Very impressive, almost to the point of being unreal! I'm jealous, and they're just handguns.

And I just picked this up from my grandfather on the way home from the range, 1944 us army 1911...


As to waiting periods, a couple of the guns that I bought were spur of the moment purchases (and I'm glad that I purchased them). I shouldn't have to wait 10 days to buy something. The full background check (I am FOR THIS) takes literally 15 seconds to run a name through the computer, and the paperwork takes another couple of minutes. That's more time than I want to spend in a store where I tend to buy things just being in the general vicinity!



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  #39  
Old 02-21-2008, 07:11 PM
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Nice 1911 svh! That one is a true collector's piece. It even has "U.S. Army" stamped on it. It looks to be in remarkable condition for a 64 year old pistol. Keep that thing locked up tight!
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  #40  
Old 02-21-2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata
Damn! I thought I was into Sigs! You sure are loyal to the brand! I think you have just about one of everything except... P210. So I think you need to buy those too. :p I've got a few Sigs and I would LOVE a Sig 1911. Oh, and you need a Sig P250. You never got into the P239?

Ammo is getting more expensive due to manufacturers having to fulfill military contracts. Not only has price gone up but supplies are getting low. Even law enforcement orders are getting delayed.
I have a P239 on the bottom :] P210 and P250 aren't legal in my state. I shot the P210 and its better than and 1911 ever! Also it is damn near impossible to get and some of what I already have, I'm not supposed to. Have a Friend who is a Federal LE agent who purchased, then transfered to me so I'm lucky.

Next Sig will probably be a "Hello Kitty" version for my wife lol
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