You are unbelievable.
I never judged YOU. I commented on your statements being assinine. How could I judge you as a person, I have never met you. You, however cannot give the same courtesy.

A. Knuckles. He was a rescue. This means he had a name, but he could not tell us. I spent 6 weeks looking for a response from him to not only common dog names but general words in conversation. He showed no appreciable reaction to anything. I started down list of dog names and the one he responded to was Knuckles. That simple. It was also fitting that he was very stubborn when I first got him and begin training. Currently, there are a few people who call him cuddles instead. They realize a name is just a word. There is a long history of dog names being deliberately goofy, funny or off the wall. How many Chihuahua's have you met named Rocko. Get real, give me a break. (to this day, he reponds to , 'hey' better than anything)

B. Collar will stay for three reasons:
1. None of your concerns have been a reality. Do you not think I have watched for any adverse effects? I appreciate your advice.
2. As I stood over the uncastrated Boerboel attacking him and watched him defending himself against a much larger and stronger animal, I saw the Boerboel go for his neck and the collar prevented it. see pic
#3 of a Boerboel. Also, the uncastrated Standard Poodle and Great Pyrenees, that have attacked, frequent the park. While I try to avoid their regular times, and keep a constant watch over my dog, I cannot see everything or be everywhere.
3. See pic #1. My house is on the lower right of the pic. It backs against the river basin (dry most of the year). After my last dog (Rottie) died. (old age, 14 yrs to be exact, but I guess that's because I am an irresponsible dog owner) The vagrants began sleeping under the trees and it was beginning to be frequented by drug addicts. (I have found used needles) Since he has been around, the drug use, sleeping, drinking and partying in the river has dropped from 3-4nights per week to barely once per month. Also, The river trail is used extensively during the daytime by people to walk their dogs and as a shortcut. I have not had to ask anyone to climb off my fence lately or get out of my yard either. I am not sure what part the visual plays, but certainly it does to some degree. If it can prevent me from one day having use stronger measures to protect myself, property and family, then it will most certainly stay.

I am SO aware of Alpha Dominance, you don't even know. Years ago I rescued my first dog, a male, uncut, Himalayan Mastiff. And that my friend, was an education. I returned him to his original owner years later, after his personal issues were worked out, a much better animal and me a better person as well. Regarding K, I have sought counsel from multiple PROFESSIONALS in different fields. But you still insist.
The history of various dog breeds is focused on Hunting/killing, Human Killing(war dogs), personal protection and herding. APBT are not the only breed with this background. The difference comes on the fact that their owners were not using their skills for subsistence/survival. That should not condemn them any more than a Dogue de Bordeaux, Mastiff, Bull Mastiff, Boerboel, Ridgeback, Afghan, Poodle, Terrier etc... It should condemn the humans using them for entertainment. Most certainly, the modern dog fighters who look for, train and encourage the dog/dog aggression, human aggression. A few bad apples have spoiled the bushel in the publics eye.
BTW, the history of spiked collars is one of protection, not as a weapon. The one he has protrudes but ends in a dull nub, 1/8 inch wide. I wrestle and play with him daily and have never been bruised, cut or injured in any way. Nor have the dogs, children and people that play with him.
I welcome you to meet him. He will blow you away.

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Look lady,
This is my last post regarding this, I have wasted enough time trying to reason with an unreasonable person.
We were at our local Railyard Park, Art Center and Shopping opening this weekend. Attended by Thousands of people and hundreds of dogs. I asked for a picture, and here it is. (google it)
BTW the first female officer says, " I LOVE his collar!" shows it to the 2nd Female officer and she loved it as well, "that is so different, looks good on him...) Then the guy on the left asked what his name was and wheni told them Knuckles, they all just laughed, thought it was funny.
What more could you want to see. The officers watched us off and on for two days, and when I asked, they were more than happy to show an endorsement.

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Pit bull kills 7-year-old Minneapolis boy at home
http://www.startribune.com/local/11588186.html

Owner Watches As Pit Bull Kills Her Puppy
http://www.ketv.com/news/12418100/detail.html

Pit Bull Attacks & Kills Burlington's Family Pet
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/a...storyid=103833

Pet pit bulls maul NLV 4-month-old to death
"mauled by her family's two pit bulls"
http://www.lvrj.com/news/28344539.html

Woman killed by her two pit bulls
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2...7570044360.txt

12 year old boy killed by family pet Pitbulls in California
"12 year old boy was killed by the family pet Pit bulls"
http://blogs.mainetoday.com/dogslife/001842.html

Pit Bulls in Watauga Attack and Kill Another Dog
http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2008/01...er-dog-in.html
"These are, all these dogs we have, are family dogs. And they've been around kids and family and all that.

Pitbull Kills Owner
"A 75-year-old woman was killed by her pet pitbull Monday."
http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/sard...ll-kills-owner

Six-Year-Old Killed By Pit Bull Pup
http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...y_Pit_Bull_Pup

Pitbull kills family poodle
http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story...7-6749ae11c084

6-YEAR-OLD BOY KILLED BY PET PIT BULL, POLICE SAY
"mauled by his family's pet pit bull."
"Family members told
police the 1-year-old dog did not have a history of aggressive
behavior."
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/local/9521032.html

Pit bull kills toddler
http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/..._toddler24970/


Man forced to kill pit bulls 2 dogs shot in Winslow after killing pony,
http://www.centralmaine.com/news/sto...dog_atta.shtml

Pet pit bulls kill Florida woman
"why a pair of pit bull terriers with no history of violence suddenly turned on their owner Tuesday, killing her"

Hey! here's another crazy Pit Bull owner who cares more about her pet than anything else, including her children:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/06/13/164853.php

Shall I go on?

__________________
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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Is it 'natural instinct' that causes these dogs to snap? Katherine Houpt, animal behaviorist at Cornell University's School of Veterinary Medicine told The Leader that this breed of dog was not meant to be a family pet.
“Their primary function is to kill other dogs and other rapidly fleeing animals, like cats.”
She went on to say that they are most aggressive over food, though.

__________________
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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Don't argue with me REALCHEF, argue with the facts:

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada
September 1982 to November 13, 2006
– Merritt Clifton --

Reports are logged as received, and the current log is printed out as
requested. Compiled by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts
since 1982, this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified
breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others
with evident expertise, who have been kept as pets. Due to the exclusion
of dogs whose breed type may be uncertain, this is by no means a complete
list of fatal and otherwise serious dog attacks. Attacks by police dogs,
guard dogs, and dogs trained specifically to fight are also excluded.
"Attacks doing bodily harm" includes all fatalities, maimings, and other
injuries requiring extensive hospital treatment. "Maimings" includes
permanent disfigurement or loss of a limb. Where there is an asterisk (*),
please see footnotes. If there are more "attacks" than "victims," it means
that there were multiple dogs involved in some attacks. If the numbers of
"victims" does not equal the numbers of "deaths" and "maimings," it means
that some of the victims -- in attacks in which some people were killed or
maimed -- were not killed or maimed.

Breed Attacks doing Child Adult Deaths Maimings Notes
bodily harm victims victims
[dogs X victims] [--------Individuals---------]
Akita 48 32 14 1 39
Akita mix (inspecific) 1 1 0 0 1
Akita/Chow mix 3 3 0 0 3
Akita/Lab mix 1 1 0 0 1
Akita/terrier mix 2 1 0 0 1
Airedale/boxer 1 1 0 1 0 #
Airedale 1 1 0 1 0
Australian blue heeler 3 1 1 0 2
Australian cattle dog 1 1 0 0 1
Australian shepherd 6 4 0 0 1
Basset/GSD mix 1 1 0 1 0
Beagle 2 2 0 1 1 #
Belgian shepherd 4 1 3 0 1
Blue heeler 2 0 1 0 1
Border collie 1 0 1 1 1 #
Briard 2 0 1 1 0
Brittany spaniel 4 1 0 0 1
Bulldog (American 4 0 3 2 2
Bulldog (English) 16 8 3 1 9
Bull mastiff (Presa Canario) 30 10 13 6 16
Bull mastiff/German shepherd 2 1 0 1 0
Buff mastiff/Rottweiler 1 1 0 0 1
Boxer 31 6 12 2 12 #
Boxer mix 1 1 0 1 0
Cane Corso 4 1 2 1 3
Catahoula 3 0 1 0 1
Chow 49 34 12 6 32
Chow/husky mix 2 2 0 1 1
Chow/Labrador mix 4 4 0 0 3
Chox mix (other) 2 2 0 0 2
Cocker spaniel 1 1 0 0 1
Collie 3 3 0 0 3
Collie/retriever mix 1 1 0 0 1
Coonhound 1 1 0 0 0
Dalmatian 3 3 0 0 3
Dalmatian/Akita mix 1 1 0 0 1
Dauschund 2 1 1 1 2 #
Doberman 11 7 4 3 7 #
Doge de Bordeaux 2 1 0 0 1
East Highland terrier 1 0 1 1 0 #
Fila Brasiero 1 1 0 0 1
German shepherd 63 42 17 7 38
German shepherd mix 31 21 7 6 19 #
German shepherd/husky mix 4 3 1 1 2
Golden retriever 6 6 0 1 4 #
Great Dane 24 5 4 2 9
Great Pyranees 1 0 1 1 0
Greyhound 1 1 0 0 1
Husky 39 23 4 13 8
Husky/Malamute mix 2 2 0 0 2
Husky/Labrador mix 1 0 1 0 1
Jack Russell terrier 2 1 1 1 0 #
Labrador 26 18 9 2 20 #
Labrador mix 10 9 1 0 9 #
Labrador/boxer mix 1 0 1 0 0
Lab-Doberman 1 1 0 0 1
Lab-St. Bernard 1 1 0 0 1
Malamute 8 7 1 3 3
Mastiff 16 11 4 4 9
Norwegian elkhound 1 0 1 0 1 #
Pit bull terrier 1110 495 397 104 608 #
Pit bull boxer mix 5 1 2 0 2
Pit bull/chow mix 5 2 3 1 3
Pit bull/Doberman/GSD/Lab 2 2 0 0 2
Pit bull/GSD mix 1 1 0 0 1
Pit bull/Lab mix 15 10 4 3 8 #
Pit bull/Rott. mix 39 7 3 2 8
Pit bull/Sheltie mix 1 1 0 0 1
Pit bull/Weimaraner mix 1 0 1 0 1
Pit mix unknown 3 2 0 0 2
Pointer mix 1 0 1 0 0 #
Pomeranian 1 1 0 1 0
Poodle 2 1 1 0 2 #
Pug 1 1 0 0 1
Pug/Rottweiler mix 2 1 0 1 0
Queensland heeler 3 0 1 0 1
Rottweiler 409 231 109 58 223 #
Rottweiler/chow mix 1 1 0 0 1
Rottweiler/GSD mix 13 7 5 2 10
Rottweiler/Labrador 7 6 1 0 7
Russian terrier 1 0 1 0 1
Saint Bernard 6 3 0 1 1
Sharpei 4 4 0 0 4
Sharpei/Rottweiler 2 1 0 0 1
Sharpei/unknown mix 1 1 0 0 1
Sharpei/Labrador 1 1 0 0 1
Springer spaniel 3 4 0 0 4
Tosa 1 1 0 0 1
Weimaeaner 1 1 0 0 1
Wheaten terrier 2 1 0 0 1
Wolf hybrid 71 65 3 18 43 #
Total: 2209 1142 658 264 1323

Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios, and their mixes:
1638 776 537 172 893
74% 68% 82% 65% 68%

Analysis
The tallies of attacks, attacks on children, attacks on adults,
fatalities, and maimings on the above data sheet must be evaluated in three
different contexts. The first pertains to breed-specific characteristic
behavior, the second to bite frequency as opposed to the frequency of
severe injuries, and the third to degree of relative risk.
Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity
to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost
as frequently as children. This is a very rare pattern: children are
normally at greatest risk from dogbite because they play with dogs more
often, have less experience in reading dog behavior, are more likely to
engage in activity that alarms or stimulates a dog, and are less able to
defend themselves when a dog becomes aggressive. Pit bulls seem to differ
behaviorally from other dogs in having far less inhibition about attacking
people who are larger than they are. They are also notorious for attacking
seemingly without warning, a tendency exacerbated by the custom of docking
pit bulls' tails so that warning signals are not easily recognized. Thus
the adult victim of a pit bull attack may have had little or no opportunity
to read the warning signals that would avert an attack from any other dog.

Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is
relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment,
someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the
actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a
Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that
has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as
their victims are paying the price.
Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be
handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special
requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other
animals, if they are to be kept at all.
--
Merritt Clifton

__________________
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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Unbelievable, your self righteousness knows no bounds.

EDUCATION is the answer. Legislation will not solve the issue (e.g. prohibition). You are letting your fear drive your actions instead of really looking at the big picture and trying to find out what can make a difference. You are making reactionist statements, generalizing and not opening your mind to ideas which offer positive results. You resist these ideas simply because they counter your base fear and innate need for immediate action. Don't let little hurdles get in the way of winning the race. The race for Canid respect. These creatures deserve a decent life. A life not at the hands of bad people. Removing the dog/dog aggressive animals and human aggressive animal is a historically proven technique. Only when the general public refuses to harbor the bad people, will they be exposed and the real work will begin. The petty chip on your sholder is only magnifying the intentsity and diverting resources from the only real solution.


There are as many examples of other dogs killing. You have stated YOU are afraid of this breed and that is driving your psychosis. MANY more people will be killed by drunk driver's, cancer, lightning etc.... But since you have made up your mind that you are afraid, then everyone else should be as well. You will not be happy until everyone has to abide by your wishes, because you obviously know what's best. I just finished reading a major piece of modern literature where this was a theme. It is required reading for any modern intellectual trying to make sense of social structures, interactions and you are really keeping to some of the core themes, congratulations. Oh, the title of this book is Mein Kampf. Have you read it? You should, genocide, censorship etc.. your favorites, are all there.

Forget the fact that you would experience this 'collar' first hand realize that is indeed not a dangerous item. No, you once were told by someone thay are dangerous, so you make ALL collars fit this purported description. I have had to take a baseball bat and remove a drug addict from my yard and also 2 ohters while climbing my fence, when I had no dog. Since I have had him, our little area is clearly cleaner and safer. Why can you not even recognize that? Wait, because it might somehow legitimize my argument and send your little closed mind spiraling out of control and you might fall of your ivory tower.

I am not holding my dog up as an example. You, however, are ignoring your own previous admittance that it is the owner not the dog and then stated the most horrible and again irrational things about one hell of a good animal. I am trying to get you to realize the positive animal he is since YOU PASSED JUDGEMENT on my animal without meeting it. Again, you blindly adhere to irrational notions without bothering to step outside your little world and look at our entire world. It's so dichotomus, rare beauty and sublime expreriences tempered with evil, hatred and foul beings.
Censorship, of any form is the most destructive concept known to man. You are so far up on your Ivory tower, that you cannot even think of considering the true ramifications of your actions. Our community is working hard with educatinal programs concerning the proper care and treatment of not just APBT but all animals. We have seen an improvement. There is a radio show every week where they go over each situation case by case. The dogs are much improved, but mostly, the community ia able to raise awareness of abuse/fighting etc.. and how it affects the entire chain. Education is the answer. But it takes a lot of work. BSL is unconstitutional and the lazy way out. Teaching that Fighting is wrong and changing the public perception of dog fighting will begin to remove the bad people and the dog's they create which cannot rehabilitated. I note again that of Michael Vick's 45 dogs, 41 were successful rehabs, 1 was ill and 2 were considered too far gone.

My puppy JUST GOT BIT by a Pit Bull.

Yes, believe it or not... I just went to lunch with a friend at an outdoor cafe in downtown Los Angeles.

When I got there, the couple sitting across from me had two dogs, A two year old Lab mix and a 14 month old, female, Pit Bull.

Believe it or not, in person, I try very hard to hold no prejudice towards individual dogs. I asked both owners if I could "treat" their dogs with chicken nibbles that I carry in my pocket and they both excitedly said "Yes".

Then the owners with their two dogs moved tables because they wanted to smoke.

Again, I gave both dogs the benefit of the doubt.

As the couple exited the restaurant, with absolutely no provocation, with my dog lying down, belly on the floor and head up, the PIT BULL attacked Maggie.



Luckily:
a) the owner had her pit on a pronged chock collar

b) The pit only got ahold of a little muzzle and some hair.
-- Otherwise this report would be coming to you from the vets office.
(Did I happen to mention I was eating and had a knife in my hand. Had that attack gone on one second longer, I would have stabbed the Pit Bull.)

Yes, I swear to god, this is what just happened, 15 minutes ago.

At the very least, the owner of the Pit Bull has the graciousness to emphatically apologize on her way out.

-- By the way, I know you're a relatively new member and probably don't know I'm Jewish. But your use of "Mein Kampf" to try to label me as some sort of Nazi is so offensive, I don't even know where to begin.
(p.s. - No, I would never waste my time reading Mein Kampf when there are books like The Diary of Anne Frank or Dawn and Night by Elie Weisel that could occupy my bookshelf.)

Sounds like you're getting pretty desperate and are reaching for thin air. And using anti-semitic material to validate your points.

My arguments are based on facts, your arguments are based on emotions.

My dog was just bit by a Pit Bull. Your dog is wearing weapons.

My statements contradict everything you have said:
- There are animal behaviorists (at Cornell Medical School) who 100% agree with me.
- 78% of all serious injuries, killings, etc. come from Bull breeds, esp. Pit Bulls.
- The information I have presented has been well researched, delivered, is not mass hysteria coming from some paranoid person, as you would like to have people believe.

READ THE FACTS.....

So, maybe you spend a little less time reading Nazi propoganda and a little more time educating yourself on:
A) How your use of holocaust and Nazi and Hitler propaganda is intrepereted by Jewish readers.
B) What the statistics of Pit Bull attacks really are.

__________________
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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Wow... you two are long winded

I think its time for a "splitter" to step in and seperate you two!

Thanks.
you got a leash on that penguin?