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#51
09-12-2008, 01:12 PM
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2) 34 PWD failed Temperament, 92 APBT failed temperament. Putting aside how many dogs were tested and percentage's etc, let me ask you a question: - If you had to make a choice between two dogs attacking you or attacking your dog, which would you rather have go primal? A Portuguese Water Dog or a APBT? - This is the point I'm trying to make. Some dogs were designed by breeding to kill. It is in the DNA. A Portuguese Water Dog might send you to the hospital and on rare occasion, might be able to deliver a fatal bite (though I have NEVER heard of a mauling by PWD.) But if an APBT goes primal, it's instincts know how to kill. -- So just like a APBT is not going to out swim a PWD, a PWD is not going to outfight or kill an APBT. I don't take any of this personally but thanks for the reassurance. Also, so you know, I love all dogs and if I were in your home, i'd be rolling around on the floor with your Bully breeds. But on a MACRO scale, not a MICRO scale, I don't believe these dogs belong in multi dog environments, off-leash, or in the homes of the average american. They are SPECIAL breeds that belong in SPECIAL homes only. They are not labs, they are not poodles. They are PIT FIGHTING dogs with the POTENTIAL to inflict serious damage on other dogs and humans. And yes, we all know of the Lab or Poodle that killed, but those are fluke events. Animals often do what they were bred to do and people should stop being surprised when a dog that was bred to fight and kill does exactly that. Again, you're not just arguing with me on this matter, you're also arguing with Pit Bull breeders who fight their dogs. These people, who fight there dogs are not saying, "They can and should be pets and fighting dogs" they are saying, "these dogs are following instincts, these dogs get hot, they were bred for aggression and their ability to kill." So while they may be fighting their dogs, I would summarize they actually have a lot more experience and exposure with the breed than the casual home user who thinks their dog, "Penny" or "Thor" is just the cutest thing and would never hurt a fly. Certainly the people who fight their dogs have the ability to assess traits of their animals. Why would you ignore what they have to say simply because they believe in matching and fighting. You can't disregard their opinions simply because you don't believe in their sports. I don't particularly like the idea of bull fighting in Mexico, but I'd be willing to bet the people who have been doing it all their lives know exactly which bulls and which stock to put in the ring and what does and doesn't make a successful bull. My point is, for every behaviorist that you can find that will say, they are great dogs, have no aggression and are sweet as pie, I can find a Pit Bull owner/breeder/expert that will tell you these dogs are not pets, they are fighting and killing machines and don't belong in homes of the avg. person. And I have the news articles with the kids mauled faces to back it up.
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----------------------------------------------------------  "When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss 
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#52
09-12-2008, 02:19 PM
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__________________
Originally Posted by Roc3b "Great, so Gman landed a nympho with a brain! Damn him!  Guinness you lucky son of a byotch!!!!!!!!!!!"  http://www.bmwcca.org http://www.sunbeltbmwcca.org
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#53
09-12-2008, 02:30 PM
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you really do not get it B-Line. After all of my points and examples, you still are saying the same thing you said on page 1. special breed, special home, only made to kill, blah blah. The truth is your dogs cannot hold a candle to mine. The only logical explanation here would be that you've never even seen or met an APBT in person. There's no point in arguing with you anymore. It's like trying to convince a 5 year old that the boogie man doesn't exist.
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#54
09-12-2008, 03:21 PM
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But that does not change the fact that your dog is genetically derived from killers. That it's a PIT FIGHTING breed. And that doesn't change just cause you call him "Fluffy". The dog breed exists because of it's ability to kill, not because of it's ability to be a house pet. Furthermore, again, your response is emotional. In all the communications we have had so far you have called me names. You have said: I am hysterical because of the media, I don't know anything about dogs, I don't know anything about Pit Bulls, You even said I don't know anything about Portuguese Water Dogs. Now you say that I'm an irrational child. In case you can't read, every single argument that you have presented I have rebutted with well researched, clearly defined, information that debunks your emotional claims. You're just pissy because you're used to arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about... BUT CLEARLY I DO.... Not only do I know about dogs and breeds, I am the owner of a breed that almost no one has ever heard of, that you tried to use to prove your point (making you look kind of silly at the same time.) So go ahead and pout. You're not dealing with some hysterical block bitch who doesn't like your dog because of the way he looks. You're dealing with an educated, researched, and communicative dog owner whose opinions are based on sound arguments and evidence. So, nanny-nanny, poo-poo. Furthermore, by suggesting that my dogs can't hold a candle to yours, you are only making yourself seem like more of an emotional ass. Yes, your dogs might kill mine in the Pit. That's what they're good at. But I don't need a title or certificate to tell me how intelligent a Portuguese Water Dog is. My dogs are obedience trained, go to agility, have a vast vocabulary which includes hand signals, verbal commands, clicker trained. They are also beautiful, warm, loving AND THEY DON'T SHED... So again, Nanny-Nanny, Poo-Poo.. (P.S. unlike APBT who were raised to Kill in Blood Sports, Portuguese Water Dogs were used for Water Rescue....) The hero vs. the killer.     So, you still think my dogs can't, "HOLD A CANDLE".....
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------- "When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss
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#55
09-12-2008, 03:27 PM
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BTW,
nice spiked chain on RealChef's Pit... So what do you think is going to happen to the dog that wrestles with another dog with that thing on it's neck... Clearly, based on the pictures provided, Real Chef is the perfect example of someone who should not have a dog like that. After all, he doesn't even understand the danger of having a spiked collar around his dogs neck.. Or he just doesn't care about other peoples pets. Typical moronic behavior... That dog is going to kill something and it will probably be wearing that collar when it does. 
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------- "When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss
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#56
09-12-2008, 06:04 PM
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Now you are behaving like a jackass. good job.  The humane society has praised me for the work I have done with this animal. The trainer in the class held him up as an example of what a larger dog can be. My Vet, Groomer and two seperate overnight boarders will testify to his soundness. He has been tested and passed. Also, passed training class as the #1 dog and I am confident he will get his Canine Good Citizenship award next month. Hardly an option for an unstable terror. Then his Therapy Dog cert. will follow. (hopefully) As noted briefly earlier, my dog is a splitter. He steps into a fight, and breaks it up. That collar: A. was initially a joke B. Is not sharp, I play and wrestle with him in short sleeves and it has no effect (but wait, I'm a Moron and don't notice my own blood) C. it has prevented damage to him and will stay. As far as him killing someone....you are out of your mind. He protects the little dogs at the park from aggressive dogs, and twice, a small terrier and a Lahsa were just barking at everything and snapping at other dogs, chasing them. Then they went to him and actually bit him on the face but he simply shrugged them off and walked away. We have hit the core issue here (by reading your own posts) You have seen attacks by APBT and damage by them. I have BEEN ATTACKED as well as seen Attacks and damage by everything BUT APBT. The difference is that I am not calling a ban on every breed which has done damage. You are calling for a ban on an entire breed, and even my dog, which you have never met. I would like to see what would happen if your dogs were brought out of the yard, daily and into the real world. Unless you are socialising them daily it would be hard for them to behave as soundly as mine. I have and will continue to expose him to crowds, bands, food courts, markets and even the 500 person public pancake breakfast (where he did not eat any food, children or adults, hell... he never even begged) Do your dogs have a Canine Good Citizenship, Do you know what it is? Could they pass a therapy dog test. I am confident that within 6 months mine will have both. Maybe, the hospital will be a good place for him to find easy prey and a quick, infirmed snack??? hmmmm..... You admit that you are afraid of the specific breed and that irrational fear is driving your prejudices. And worst of all, you are letting your fears control your opinion and WORST YET inflicting your fears onto others. I will gladly give you my name, phone number address and welcome you and your dogs anytime you are in the area.
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#57
09-12-2008, 06:10 PM
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__________________
Current: 2008 Infiniti G37 6mt Retired: 2002 BMW X5 3.0i  BMW CCA member
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#58
09-12-2008, 06:20 PM
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The sad thing is, you don't even know it. A. Joke or no joke, your dog is wearing spikes. B. Just because it's not sharp doesn't mean it can't impale. C. Typical response... Why should you care about anyone else's pet other than your own? You're exactly the type of person, if I saw you in the park with your Pit Bull and spiked collar, I'd leash up my dog and walk away. You're a walking hazard. Also, just a little information about Dog Behavior which clearly, you are clueless. - The little term you like to throw around, "SPLITTER"... That's a cute way to express it. He "Splits" up the fight. What you don't realize is, DOGS ARE NOT HUMANS. You are thinking like a human, not a dog. So ask yourself this, what behavior is your dog doing when he is "SPLITTING" -- Well, in case you haven't figured it out yet, he is exerting ALPHA MALE DOMINANCE BEHAVIOR and telling the other dogs that he is in charge and they're not allowed to fight right now. ---- So, what do you think is going to happen when your ALPHA MALE dog who clearly shows dominant behavior in the park by splitting is going to do, when he eventually tries to split up a fight with another ALPHA MALE dog. Geee, I never thought of thought of that! So, when these dogs are fighting and you go to grab your dog or the other dog that is fighting your dog, how do you expect it to defend itself if your ALPHA MALE DOMINANCE dog is garnished in SPIKES... And how do you expect to pull your dog off if he's garnished in spikes? (No you shouldn't try to grab a dogs collar in a fight, but sometimes you need to restrain your dog during or after...) Real SMART!! you're just racking up the genius points today.... You are so ignorant... Any dog behaviorist will tell you that "splitting" as you so call it, is nothing more than an ASSERTIVE, ALPHA MALE, DOMINANCE trait.... Welcome to the world of actually discussing dogs with someone who knows a little something... YOU ARE A DANGER.. YOU'RE SPIKED DOG IS A DANGER... And what's worse is, you don't even know it.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------- "When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss
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#59
09-12-2008, 06:36 PM
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Wow I really wasn't expecting that. As I said I'm done trying to convince you, you have a right to your opinion but you seem to have lost control. I don't see anywhere did I call you any names, as you put it. But until you have any kind of titles on your dogs then no, you can't compare. By next year I will have my Agility title making my dog an official "superdog" with the UKC. So there goes your whole argument of "only bred to kill".
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#60
09-12-2008, 06:48 PM
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1) First you call me misinformed
2) Then you accuse me of being brainwashed by the media 3) Then you challenge my knowledge of dogs, breeds 4) Then you call me a five year old 5) Then you challenge the quality of my dogs All I have done is garnish the forum with well documented and accepted literature and research about your breed. But no need for me to argue with you. Just in case you missed it the first time, here is what PIT BULL breeders have to say about their own dogs. And considering the quantity of dogs they have whelped vs. you're "super dog", I'm more inclined to listen to the experts: From the mouth of Pit Bull breeders: "Have you read the history of the APBT? Matching is what made this breed what it is. You don't have to LIKE it, you if you don't ACCEPT it, maybe this isn't the right breed for you." "If you take the dog aggression out of a pit bull, or attempt to anyway, you open it up to a slew of other issues including human aggression. I'm sorry, but I'd rather keep this breed true-to-standard and not screw it up." "LEARN your dogs' roots. Learn your breed. This is not a breed for everyone and many people on here clearly didn't do their research and would prefer to have a Golden Retriever in a pit bull suit. I, on the other hand, would prefer a PIT bull." "I'd like you to come to an ADBA show and tell someone with a very hot pit bull that they can work their dog using treats and "watch me" to get them to focus. They'd probably laugh. I'll be honest. I have a VERY hot pit bull. His name is Ryker. He hates many...many dogs. While food is an excellent motivator in low-stressor situations, the possibility of taking a chunk out of another dog is far more appealing." "This comes from breed experience and breed knowledge and the reality of owning a breed that things Fido down the street would make a lovely snack." "Its in their genes. It makes them WANT to do it. Just like its in your genes to want to have sex. You WANT to do it. Regardless you cant just train it out of them. They want to attack other dogs, they have a prey drive. Right? They are more than likely DA." "The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred specifically to be the "perfect" pit dog....fighting dog. End of story. Everything in history, words and pictures both, explain it very simply and in detail. The fact that you choose to ignore what is known and make up your own stories does worry me, especially if you are out trying to "educate" others on these dogs." Thank you and good night!
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------- "When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss
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