Bikers/Range Rover Chase - Page 2

BGM · #1 10-03-2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

As many others have, I also have viewed this horrifically captivating video filmed by one of the bikers of the events this past weekend on Riverside Drive on Manhattan's Upper West Side. While the video reveals much of what happened, we all here can only speculate as to the reasons for various actions, including:

1. What was the intent of all of these bikers? Apparently, with many of them having removed their license plates to prevent easy identification, they must have had some premeditated intent to do something unlawful, such as exceeding the posted speed limit. Possibly more than that....?

2. Why was the Range Rover the only vehicle in view, both immediately as well as for 1,000 ft ahead, other than the multiple motorcycles?

3. Why did the wife of the driver not call 911 from a cell phone from within their vehicle to notify police of the current harassment?

4. When observing the many motorcyclists appearing in his rear view mirror, why did the Driver of the Range Rover, Mr. Alexian Lien, not just pull over to the far left lane, slow down and let them all pass?

We may never know the answer to these questions, but then again, if any of these bikers are arrested, charged with crimes and put on trial, maybe we will learn more.

The scary scenes in this video reminded me of the classic motorcycle vs. car scene in the Mad Max movie. As is now being discussed in some online blogs, maybe we will see some copy-cat responses to belligerent bikers disobeying traffic laws by motorists who are fed up with their crap. Who knows....? While I am certainly not advocating or promoting proactive violent actions, I would not be all that surprised if at some point in the not too distant future someone will take it upon themselves to be a vigilante and recreate Max and his Interceptor and start patrolling the roadways searching for these misfit cyclists and...

1. They apparently did a similiar rally downtown NYC last year which this year, from what I read, the police stopped. Also, reports are saying they were trying to block the off-ramps on this highway for something.
2. Again, reports are saying he was being bullied into trying to exit so they can have the road--which might be why the bikers were singling him out.
3. I'm sure she did. Other thing I thought was odd was there was not one cop along the way that saw this or someone else that might have called in.
4. Probably had so many around him so quick he was surrounded before he could do anything.

My $.02

SlickGT1 · #2 10-03-2013, 04:27 PM

I ride, and I agree with the RR driver. I can put myself into his shoes in an instant. My age is similar, so is my wife, and my oldest child. A dumb shit cuts me off in a pack, I have nowhere to go, he is getting hit. If I stop, there better not be anyone approaching my vehicle, or I will start running dumb asses over.

They are all lucky it wasn't me in that car. The first off ramp / on ramp I would see, would be my pinch point. I would have mangled a whole lot of that mob that day. No way would I stop for traffic. Put in reverse, depress go pedal to floor, stop, put in drive, depress go pedal. Repeat as necessary.

And If it was me in my F150, holy shit. Steel chrome bumpers, and 2' of body in front of engine. They would have to pull out those idiots with crowbars out of my grills and bed.

The first guy he ran over, is F****ed. He is in medical induced coma, broken spine and a whole lot of other shit. Too bad. Next time some dumbass tries to "stage" an accident against and SUV, maybe think twice.

A few of the bikers have been arrested too. And they are now looking for that dude that smashed in with his helmet.

Now thanks to these dumb shit clowns, us normal people, can't take out our bikes in this good weather we are experiencing. Why you say Slick, you weren't part of it. Yea, tell that to the cops who are pulling over every sports bike in the 5 boroughs, taking pictures of your shit, and interrogating you. I took my bike out yesterday, only to be pulled over 2 times 15 min after first stop. For nothing at all. I was let go both times, but each stop cost me, wait for it, 1 hour.

AVB-AMG · #3 10-03-2013, 04:49 PM

Since we are expressing our thoughts on what each of us would do in that hypothetical situation if we were the driver of that Range Rover and our wife and child were in the vehicle, how would we react...?

I agree that I would certainly become defensive. But would I also become aggressive and consciously attack bikers who, while swarming around and along side you have not done anything else than that. I don't know...

I would like to think that I would not do something consciously stupid or life threatening, but we all have a "snapping" point and it may be at a different point for all of us.

I know that when I am in the supposedly "safe cocoon" of my enclosed vehicles, I feel more ready to verbally condemn other knuckle headed motorists for doing stupid and/or unsafe things with their vehicles. I admit to having "shot the bird" to other motorists who have cut me off or have engaged in stupid behavior.

So at what point would each of us transform our behavior from defensive to offensive...?
Would it be once one or more of the bikers physically attack my vehicle? If so, would it have to be more that denting body panels, such as breaking glass windows?
Most likely, it would be at the point where in our conscious thinking, we jump from fear as our motivator, (i.e. drive away at a fast rate to attempt to escape the danger), to violent physical rage, (turning my vehicle into a weapon and actually use it that way to consciously inflict physical harm on as many cyclists as I could....).

This frightening video really does raise many questions for each of us and makes me think, "what would I do....?"

SlickGT1 · #4 10-03-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

Since we are expressing our thoughts on what each of us would do in that hypothetical situation if we were the driver of that Range Rover and our wife and child were in the vehicle, how would we react...?

I agree that I would certainly become defensive. But would I also become aggressive and consciously attack bikers who, while swarming around and along side you have not done anything else than that. I don't know...

I would like to think that I would not do something consciously stupid or life threatening, but we all have a "snapping" point and it may be at a different point for all of us.

I know that when I am in the supposedly "safe cocoon" of my enclosed vehicles, I feel more ready to verbally condemn other knuckle headed motorists for doing stupid and/or unsafe things with their vehicles. I admit to having "shot the bird" to other motorists who have cut me off or have engaged in stupid behavior.

So at what point would each of us transform our behavior from defensive to offensive...?
Would it be once one or more of the bikers physically attack my vehicle? If so, would it have to be more that denting body panels, such as breaking glass windows?
Most likely, it would be at the point where in our conscious thinking, we jump from fear as our motivator, (i.e. drive away at a fast rate to attempt to escape the danger), to violent physical rage, (turning my vehicle into a weapon and actually use it that way to consciously inflict physical harm on as many cyclists as I could....).

This frightening video really does raise many questions for each of us and makes me think, "what would I do....?"

Yea that is the thing, watching this video, and knowing the scene around here, I know from the get go, that I would not allow them swarm and follow me. You do not know if any of these guys are carrying guns or any other weapons, and I am willing to bet there were guns.

I would put them in a pinch point and smash up the front runners, at least to a point where it will be a challenge for them to follow me. And those that will be able to get through, will be much fewer in number. Speaking from experience, you lay out the front runners, the rest just punks in a mob, they will not attempt the same fate.

ard · #5 10-04-2013, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

Since we are expressing our thoughts on what each of us would do in that hypothetical situation if we were the driver of that Range Rover and our wife and child were in the vehicle, how would we react...?

....

So at what point would each of us transform our behavior from defensive to offensive...?
Would it be once one or more of the bikers physically attack my vehicle? If so, would it have to be more that denting body panels, such as breaking glass windows?
Most likely, it would be at the point where in our conscious thinking, we jump from fear as our motivator, (i.e. drive away at a fast rate to attempt to escape the danger), to violent physical rage, (turning my vehicle into a weapon and actually use it that way to consciously inflict physical harm on as many cyclists as I could....).

This frightening video really does raise many questions for each of us and makes me think, "what would I do....?"

Interesting question.

My 'line' is physical contact: when they hit me, then my actions escalate. I'd like to think I wouldnt panic and wildly plunge into them, but rather push through the crowd. Same if blocked in with cars- first try and move them with force not impacts (which can damage your car)

But once 'free' then you are doing a few things- one, trying and preventing them from getting alongside, such that they could strike the glass, shoot, or disable. Second trying to maintain visual to see if anyone IS pulling a weapon. So controlling the paths around your car... stay in the right lane, anyone alongside gets swerved into: they can stay behind or ahead. Next, speed is NOT your friend. Think OJ chase. Speed just brings you up to a new, potentially worse situation: traffic blocked, red light, etc. (unless you can outrun the aggressor, dont bother.) Do things to attract attention, piss off other drivers, have them call 911. Finally think about an end game: obviously a police station would be good, but where else can you go? If it is one person, then maybe a evasive move or two could separate you, even if you are slower: an off ramp, across traffic.

just thinking and considering this kind of thing is a good conversation...

Oh, once saw a biker who was lane splitting have words with a driver -smacked his window, and then broke his mirror. I was right behind them, wondering where this was going.... I wrote down the bikers plate number on a biz card and pulled next to the other driver when traffic slowed and gave it to him. Not sure who was more surpirsed, the driver in the car, or the biker later on....

Ricky Bobby · #6 10-04-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1

I ride, and I agree with the RR driver. I can put myself into his shoes in an instant. My age is similar, so is my wife, and my oldest child. A dumb shit cuts me off in a pack, I have nowhere to go, he is getting hit. If I stop, there better not be anyone approaching my vehicle, or I will start running dumb asses over.

They are all lucky it wasn't me in that car. The first off ramp / on ramp I would see, would be my pinch point. I would have mangled a whole lot of that mob that day. No way would I stop for traffic. Put in reverse, depress go pedal to floor, stop, put in drive, depress go pedal. Repeat as necessary.

And If it was me in my F150, holy shit. Steel chrome bumpers, and 2' of body in front of engine. They would have to pull out those idiots with crowbars out of my grills and bed.

The first guy he ran over, is F****ed. He is in medical induced coma, broken spine and a whole lot of other shit. Too bad. Next time some dumbass tries to "stage" an accident against and SUV, maybe think twice.

A few of the bikers have been arrested too. And they are now looking for that dude that smashed in with his helmet.

Now thanks to these dumb shit clowns, us normal people, can't take out our bikes in this good weather we are experiencing. Why you say Slick, you weren't part of it. Yea, tell that to the cops who are pulling over every sports bike in the 5 boroughs, taking pictures of your shit, and interrogating you. I took my bike out yesterday, only to be pulled over 2 times 15 min after first stop. For nothing at all. I was let go both times, but each stop cost me, wait for it, 1 hour.

Slick I feel bad for you especially living in NYC and trying to enjoy the fall weather on your supersport (what do you ride btw?). Most of you know that I am a die hard enthusiast rider, I had an SV650 for a couple years, then traded up to the now discontinued SV1000 (think Suzuki's version of the RC51) for a couple years, and although I LOVED my literbike twin sportbikes, I stopped riding sportbikes for 2 reasons, although it killed me because they are so much fun and really make you imrpvoe your limits as a rider.

1) My gf (now my wife) at the time had no interest in joining me as a passenger on a sportbike, due to the riding position, etc, I agreed with her, sportbikes although they include a pillion are not comfortable for 2-up riding. I had to get something that I could enjoy solo, as well as enjoy with her as a passenger (and not a burden passenger leaning on your back!)

2) I was sick and tired after 5 years of being asked "how fast can you go on your crotch rocket?" I almost punched guys a few times for being so ignorant, first of all it was a V-twin sportbike, second of all any asshole can go fast in a straight line. I also was sick and tired of being involved and associated with that Ruff Ryders/ "thug sportbike" crowd I referenced earlier in this thread.

So now with my Triumph Thunderbird Storm, I fly a little more under the radar, still have a shit ton of power between my legs, although with a more comfortable ride I enjoy solo as well as 2-up. Can I lean as far? Nope. Do I not get hassled by cops, EVER? Yep. Do I want to add a naked bike to the stable (Triumph Speed Triple) for someday going on solo, more spirited rides by myself? Absolutely, but I'm glad I got rid of the sportbike and the stereotypes as well.

And I normally agree with you on most things, but as far as the "if the RR driver was carrying in the vehicle" line goes, I respectfully disagree.

We can all agree that you are not going to stop illegal thugs with illegally obtained guns, hell in this case we can't even expect them to have licenses, registered bikes, let's not even ask if they are insured!

However, I beg to differ that if NY were a state where you are allowed to carry in a vehicle as long as you have proper Firearms ID and it is a legally obtained weapon, and upon a traffic stop the first thing you do is identify to an officer that you are carrying in the vehicle, there might have been a more level playing field here.

Throw this same situation in Texas, the thugs will be EXACTLY the same. unregistered bikes, most likely a couple of them with an illegally obtained weapon. They would think twice about assaulting the vehicle and coming after the driver if they were met with gunfire down there, as most drivers and citizens carry a firearm in their vehicle.

Yes, you're right as well that there is a chance that if he drew a weapon the ones who had weapons might have drawn down as well, but just the fact that he surprised the mob by drawing his own weapon (if he was allowed to legally carry one in the vehicle) might have bought him enough time to get out a bit safer, and would have made the thugs think twice about chasing him down for miles and pulling him from the vehicle and beating him down on a busy street.

Just my 2 cents, you need not agree. But I for one would have felt a lot safer with my firearm in the vehicle if I was met with a mob like this, if for nothing just to keep them at bay while I tried to exit, and to make them think twice about dragging me out for a beating. No matter how many guys you have, are you gonna charge at a guy pointing a gun at you and not expect to induce some damage if you attack?

I would like to add that I am a licensed firearms owner in NJ and own 2 handguns currently, NJ laws are a joke as I'm sure NY laws are as well, probably even worse actually (although you really can't get worse than this). In NJ you can only lawfully have a gun in the vehicle for transport if the gun itself is in a locked container unloaded, and ammunition is in a separate locked container, which is not in the center console or glove box. And you may only lawfully do this in state if you are travelling to the gun range or gunsmith, and you may not make any unnecessary stops to or from.

As far as in the car goes but travelling across state lines, you must obey the laws of the state you are going through as far as having a firearm in the car goes (say if you were going to a friends house in NC, and wanted to shoot some rounds while you were down there), but again once you cross over into NJ, you need to get back to your destination (home) with your firearms as quickly and as directly as possible, no unnecessary stops or you risk at a traffic stop having a citation issued and possibly firearms confiscated.

Not sure why NY laws are for comparison, I'm sure you would know.

SlickGT1 · #7 10-03-2013, 04:35 PM

Oh and no one cares about why it started. You are a mob, attacking and making a car bend to your inappropriate rules. Count how many laws these guys broke before the shit hit the fan hard core. Improper use of space, removed and blocked plates, obstructing flow of traffic. Half of them most likely don't have licenses.

DunKeL GraU · #8 10-03-2013, 05:58 PM

I think the rider that is paralyzed is NOT the one that brake checked the RR. The paralyzed one is someone who I believe got ran over when the RR fled. Even more horrible if you ask me, that the original rider caused all of this, and for arguments sake also caused this other guy to be paralyzed.

I think the original rider was in court yesterday and was released on $1500.00 bail.

There is also some dispute here in NYC between the police department and the district attorney office, who feel that the police department is making arrests too quickly.

SlickGT1 · #9 10-03-2013, 06:12 PM

Yup, the brake checking guy was in court.

I agree sux for the paralyzed guy. But don't forget, he chose to be in front of the RR, and was riding along side it. He is also not licensed. Not that I'm happy he is perma effked.. His life, if he lives will never be the same.

Sbjkmtce · #10 10-04-2013, 07:00 AM

Well said. I can only picture myself in the rr driver's situation.
His reaction might not be perfect but what I only know is he was outnumbered and panic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1

Yup, the brake checking guy was in court.

I agree sux for the paralyzed guy. But don't forget, he chose to be in front of the RR, and was riding along side it. He is also not licensed. Not that I'm happy he is perma effked.. His life, if he lives will never be the same.