It is very easy for any of us commenting here to speculate what we would most likely do if we were in that position of the RR driver.
We have the luxury of time to think about various options and alternatives to deal with the situation, including stop or flee or attack, etc...
What I believe some posters hubris fails to recognize is that as much as we may think or want to react in a certain way, we really do not know for sure what we would do....

Surprise, aggravation, speculation as to intent, shock, fear, panic, anger, self preservation, family protection, etc. all will combine in various ways and intensities to ultimately mix a mental motivating cocktail that will influence and direct our immediate impulsive actions, followed by our next moves. My point is: we can say here in a relatively safe anonymous internet forum what we would LIKE to do, but we really have no idea of how we would really actually do....

Also, as has been mentioned in an earlier post, we can probably assume that one or more of these bikers may possibly have had a weapon, a firearm. With our country allowing almost anyone to easily purchase firearms, combined with the conceal and carry laws in many states, you just have to assume that the "other" driver, biker, trucker, whomever it may be, quite possibly is armed. That assumption alone should temper any sane, rational driver to attempt to factor in this possibility, when faced by the aggressive behavior that these bikers demonstrated. As much as I may want to perform an aggressive move with my vehicle, I need to remind myself that the other driver/biker may then pull out a gun and fire it at me. Do I really want to take that chance....? Do any of you really want to do that? All male testosterone reflexive aggressive and violent bravado comments on how they would react in this scenerio in this thread on this topic fail to acknowledge this very real possibility. That is why I say in reality one may act and react differently that what you initially assume you would do.

I assume that when a person mentally "snaps" as the RR driver may have, that any rational weighing of the potential consequences becomes much more difficult.

That is why this hypothetical scenario for any of us to envision ourselves in is so challenging and maybe even wishful thinking since we like to think we "know" what we would do, but in reality, we only think we do and may actually act and react very differently.

__________________
My current & recent car history:
2020 BMW 440i xDrive Coupe (Wife's daily driver)
2016 BMW X5M (My daily driver)
2014 BMW M6 Coupe (gone)
2013 BWM 335i xDrive Coupe (gone)
2011 BMW 335xi turbo coupe (gone)
2007 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (gone)
2007 BMW 335ci twin turbo coupe (gone)
2004 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG (gone)
2004 BMW X5 4.4i (w/full Aero Kit - gone)
2001 BMW X5 4.4i (w/full Aero Kit - gone)
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 Sport (gone)
1961 Mercedes-Benz 190SL (owned for 48 years)

AVB, think about it, do you carry a weapon? Probably not. Most of us in NYC cannot carry a weapon. Shit, just getting a fire arm, in your house is insane tough here. I certainly don't carry. But I bet you there were more than a few thugs in that crowd that did have a gun. I would not want to find out if anyone of them would try to shoot me.

So yesterday on the news. Cops have now pulled over 300 bikers. They have photographed and cataloged every single one. They also IDed the dude bashing the car with the helmet, and expect him to turn himself in.

The RR driver also called the cops once. The wife called the cops 3 times. They have no clue why the bikers chose to mess with them. I have a feeling to get paid when an RR hits you.

That day, the bikers were all over the city. Police have received 200 calls that day from all over the city for bikers driving on sidewalks, stopping traffic, disobeying the laws and disturbing the peace. 15 arrest made that day. Yea great for the people that want to enjoy a ride and not be classified as part of those idiots.

I just want to put up a huge middle finger to all of them in that mob. Thanks to these idiots I am seriously thinking it's time to part with my bike. I can only imagine the millions of Cage drivers that are now going to screw with every sports bike out there.

__________________
2006 4.8is, Black on White. SOLD Sniff Sniff.

2017 F85 x5m, Black on Red. BEAST MODE


"The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes." - Mark Twain

Unlock OBC post 5

AVB, think about it, do you carry a weapon? Probably not. Most of us in NYC cannot carry a weapon. Shit, just getting a fire arm, in your house is insane tough here. I certainly don't carry. But I bet you there were more than a few thugs in that crowd that did have a gun. I would not want to find out if anyone of them would try to shoot me.

So yesterday on the news. Cops have now pulled over 300 bikers. They have photographed and cataloged every single one. They also IDed the dude bashing the car with the helmet, and expect him to turn himself in.

The RR driver also called the cops once. The wife called the cops 3 times. They have no clue why the bikers chose to mess with them. I have a feeling to get paid when an RR hits you.

That day, the bikers were all over the city. Police have received 200 calls that day from all over the city for bikers driving on sidewalks, stopping traffic, disobeying the laws and disturbing the peace. 15 arrest made that day. Yea great for the people that want to enjoy a ride and not be classified as part of those idiots.

I just want to put up a huge middle finger to all of them in that mob. Thanks to these idiots I am seriously thinking it's time to part with my bike. I can only imagine the millions of Cage drivers that are now going to screw with every sports bike out there.

__________________
2006 4.8is, Black on White. SOLD Sniff Sniff.

2017 F85 x5m, Black on Red. BEAST MODE


"The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes." - Mark Twain

Unlock OBC post 5

As part of my employment, we are undergoing through some driving technique training... My agency is not charged with attacking, or pursuing bad guys (some sections actually are), we are in business of protection, so we are "designed" to flee a scene... They teach us how to throw a car in reverse, back out of a blocked road, do a J-turn and take off, they showed us how to properly ram a car that is blocking your way to escape the harm... The more important thing about the training, not just the physical ability to execute those actions but the mental preparedness to encounter such a thing...

As I drive, I treat my daily commute and leisure trips as a walk on a wild side, when something can and will happen... If I were driving the RR, i would have tried to avoid the damage and injuries but my paramount goal would have been to protect the welfare of the child and spouse, and i would have treated anyone outside of the vehicle as a potential threat, regardless if the person was a simple bystander or whatnot - if the person was in close proximity to my conveyance, he is a threat and should be dealt with accordingly... if the guy ended up under the RR as the SUV moved forward, it is clear that the guy was deliberately blocking the path of a moving vehicle in order to assist his accomplices in inflicting harm to the RR driver and passenger - does anyone here think that the bikers stopped the vehicle to offer ice cream to the kid and flowers to the lady???.

Self-defense is clear here...

Boom well said.

__________________
2006 4.8is, Black on White. SOLD Sniff Sniff.

2017 F85 x5m, Black on Red. BEAST MODE


"The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes." - Mark Twain

Unlock OBC post 5

SlickGT!:

I see that you felt so strongly about your points that you said them twice

Your assumption is correct, I do not own any guns.....
Yet as a young teenager I was on a couple of rifle teams (22's) and became a NRA-registered expert marksman, shooting at paper targets. While I am not a hunter, I appreciate the sporting aspect of gun use and ownership in this country. Yet I also believe that the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment has been grossly misinterpreted by many in this country, warping its original intention by our founding fathers, to rationalize and justify the "right" to own semi-assault weapons and large capacity magazine clips. While I believe this is foolish and wrong, it is currently legal in many states.

Too many people, motivated by fear, have purchased guns legally with the stated purpose for possible protection. That is their right, however flawed you or I may think it is.

But this thread is not about gun rights, so let me get back to the point I made in an earlier post. For anyone to say they would consciously use their vehicle as a weapon, to consciously hurt any of these swarming motorcyclists, they would have had to have "snapped", lost all rational decision-making ability. They would no longer be fearful of any sort of retaliatory actions by the bikers, including the very real possibility of one or more of them pulling out a gun and using it. This form of Road Rage, has happened before in this country and I wonder if it will start to occur more frequently.....???
Also, it can work both ways, as reminded in the scene from the movie EASY RIDER.

I appreciate your concern that a few "bad apples" of cyclist can tar and feather the perceptions of many people, to the point that it diminishes your joy and satisfaction of riding your motorcycle. That is a shame but certainly understandable.

It has been my experience as a NJ resident who commutes M-F by car into Manhattan, that many motorcyclists disobey a number of traffic laws. Most commonly it is when vehicles are in stop-and-go traffic leading into the Lincoln or Holland Tunnels and the cyclists just drive between the two lanes of stopped cars in order to get farther ahead.

Then once in the City, we drivers now have to be extra cautious to drive and gingerly navigate alongside and around the many new bicyclists riding on the streets. Most of them are either clueless about traffic laws or just decide to disregard them entirely, by riding through red lights, ignoring designated bike lanes, let alone riding without any helmet.

But that is what driving in NYC is all about today....

__________________
My current & recent car history:
2020 BMW 440i xDrive Coupe (Wife's daily driver)
2016 BMW X5M (My daily driver)
2014 BMW M6 Coupe (gone)
2013 BWM 335i xDrive Coupe (gone)
2011 BMW 335xi turbo coupe (gone)
2007 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (gone)
2007 BMW 335ci twin turbo coupe (gone)
2004 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG (gone)
2004 BMW X5 4.4i (w/full Aero Kit - gone)
2001 BMW X5 4.4i (w/full Aero Kit - gone)
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 Sport (gone)
1961 Mercedes-Benz 190SL (owned for 48 years)

Slick I feel bad for you especially living in NYC and trying to enjoy the fall weather on your supersport (what do you ride btw?). Most of you know that I am a die hard enthusiast rider, I had an SV650 for a couple years, then traded up to the now discontinued SV1000 (think Suzuki's version of the RC51) for a couple years, and although I LOVED my literbike twin sportbikes, I stopped riding sportbikes for 2 reasons, although it killed me because they are so much fun and really make you imrpvoe your limits as a rider.

1) My gf (now my wife) at the time had no interest in joining me as a passenger on a sportbike, due to the riding position, etc, I agreed with her, sportbikes although they include a pillion are not comfortable for 2-up riding. I had to get something that I could enjoy solo, as well as enjoy with her as a passenger (and not a burden passenger leaning on your back!)

2) I was sick and tired after 5 years of being asked "how fast can you go on your crotch rocket?" I almost punched guys a few times for being so ignorant, first of all it was a V-twin sportbike, second of all any asshole can go fast in a straight line. I also was sick and tired of being involved and associated with that Ruff Ryders/ "thug sportbike" crowd I referenced earlier in this thread.

So now with my Triumph Thunderbird Storm, I fly a little more under the radar, still have a shit ton of power between my legs, although with a more comfortable ride I enjoy solo as well as 2-up. Can I lean as far? Nope. Do I not get hassled by cops, EVER? Yep. Do I want to add a naked bike to the stable (Triumph Speed Triple) for someday going on solo, more spirited rides by myself? Absolutely, but I'm glad I got rid of the sportbike and the stereotypes as well.


And I normally agree with you on most things, but as far as the "if the RR driver was carrying in the vehicle" line goes, I respectfully disagree.

We can all agree that you are not going to stop illegal thugs with illegally obtained guns, hell in this case we can't even expect them to have licenses, registered bikes, let's not even ask if they are insured!


However, I beg to differ that if NY were a state where you are allowed to carry in a vehicle as long as you have proper Firearms ID and it is a legally obtained weapon, and upon a traffic stop the first thing you do is identify to an officer that you are carrying in the vehicle, there might have been a more level playing field here.

Throw this same situation in Texas, the thugs will be EXACTLY the same. unregistered bikes, most likely a couple of them with an illegally obtained weapon. They would think twice about assaulting the vehicle and coming after the driver if they were met with gunfire down there, as most drivers and citizens carry a firearm in their vehicle.


Yes, you're right as well that there is a chance that if he drew a weapon the ones who had weapons might have drawn down as well, but just the fact that he surprised the mob by drawing his own weapon (if he was allowed to legally carry one in the vehicle) might have bought him enough time to get out a bit safer, and would have made the thugs think twice about chasing him down for miles and pulling him from the vehicle and beating him down on a busy street.



Just my 2 cents, you need not agree. But I for one would have felt a lot safer with my firearm in the vehicle if I was met with a mob like this, if for nothing just to keep them at bay while I tried to exit, and to make them think twice about dragging me out for a beating. No matter how many guys you have, are you gonna charge at a guy pointing a gun at you and not expect to induce some damage if you attack?


I would like to add that I am a licensed firearms owner in NJ and own 2 handguns currently, NJ laws are a joke as I'm sure NY laws are as well, probably even worse actually (although you really can't get worse than this). In NJ you can only lawfully have a gun in the vehicle for transport if the gun itself is in a locked container unloaded, and ammunition is in a separate locked container, which is not in the center console or glove box. And you may only lawfully do this in state if you are travelling to the gun range or gunsmith, and you may not make any unnecessary stops to or from.

As far as in the car goes but travelling across state lines, you must obey the laws of the state you are going through as far as having a firearm in the car goes (say if you were going to a friends house in NC, and wanted to shoot some rounds while you were down there), but again once you cross over into NJ, you need to get back to your destination (home) with your firearms as quickly and as directly as possible, no unnecessary stops or you risk at a traffic stop having a citation issued and possibly firearms confiscated.



Not sure why NY laws are for comparison, I'm sure you would know.

__________________
2018 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins 68RFE
19k miles -Bright White/Black - Big Horn Sport - Crew Cab Short Bed
2013 X5 35D (CEO's) - Born on 5/17/2013 -
82k miles - Alpine White/Cinnamon Brown/Premium Pkg, Sport Activity/Premium Pkg and Sound/20" Style 214/Running Boards

Suzuki GSXR bikes. Now have a 1k GSXR, 2012. I went away from the flashy looking bikes. Used to have a telefonica, and alstare, corona 1k, blue and whites. This one is all black, trying to stay under the radar. Even stock pipe. Only places I manage to enjoy it though is in NJ and PA. I can't find shit in the city with enough twists. Now these biker gangs making a bad rep for us, is gonna suck. I just feel it, people already hate us, this is going to make it worse. The cops are of no help either. Until they pull you over and find out you are all legit, you are squid.

NYC gun laws. NYC has the strict ass laws. Forget about carry. Not going to happen unless you have some serious connection or an undeniable need to have one. As far as transporting the gun, same as you.

I will never be able to get a CCW licence in NYC. I didn't even get my small arms licence yet. I only have the rifle currently.

I agree with you on everything though.

__________________
2006 4.8is, Black on White. SOLD Sniff Sniff.

2017 F85 x5m, Black on Red. BEAST MODE


"The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes." - Mark Twain

Unlock OBC post 5

Yeah NJ is same with CCW licence, "have to demonstrate need" which basically means unless you are retired cop, work as a PI, or are a woman who has restraining orders out, you can't get it. So although we have the "opportunity", both states really have no chance for the average law abiding citizen/gun owner.

I could never be licenced to conceal carry either, too bad I didn't take a career in law enforcement (I tried for a couple years but gave up bc being a cop in NJ takes a lot of ass kissing for a lot of years and is a very political process).


And i'm fairly certain NY is same as NJ for handguns, but each time you want to buy a handgun in NJ you have to actually have applied for a PPP (pistol purchasers permit) and have one issued for each time you buy a handgun, and in the process they send out a letter to your employer and 3 references and have to get the paperwork back from them before they issue the permit. And the permit is good only for 90 days, renewable once, and you may only buy one handgun every 30 days legally. And once you buy a handgun, two copies of the permit have to be sent to the state, one to your municipality for their files and one to the NJSP for theirs.

Sound like NY? lol



And hey if you ever make it out my way in the Jerz and don't mind cruising around with a converted "power cruiser" guy, you can always hit me up for a ride on a nice day.

__________________
2018 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins 68RFE
19k miles -Bright White/Black - Big Horn Sport - Crew Cab Short Bed
2013 X5 35D (CEO's) - Born on 5/17/2013 -
82k miles - Alpine White/Cinnamon Brown/Premium Pkg, Sport Activity/Premium Pkg and Sound/20" Style 214/Running Boards