Bikers/Range Rover Chase - Page 2

BGM · #11 10-03-2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

As many others have, I also have viewed this horrifically captivating video filmed by one of the bikers of the events this past weekend on Riverside Drive on Manhattan's Upper West Side. While the video reveals much of what happened, we all here can only speculate as to the reasons for various actions, including:

1. What was the intent of all of these bikers? Apparently, with many of them having removed their license plates to prevent easy identification, they must have had some premeditated intent to do something unlawful, such as exceeding the posted speed limit. Possibly more than that....?

2. Why was the Range Rover the only vehicle in view, both immediately as well as for 1,000 ft ahead, other than the multiple motorcycles?

3. Why did the wife of the driver not call 911 from a cell phone from within their vehicle to notify police of the current harassment?

4. When observing the many motorcyclists appearing in his rear view mirror, why did the Driver of the Range Rover, Mr. Alexian Lien, not just pull over to the far left lane, slow down and let them all pass?

We may never know the answer to these questions, but then again, if any of these bikers are arrested, charged with crimes and put on trial, maybe we will learn more.

The scary scenes in this video reminded me of the classic motorcycle vs. car scene in the Mad Max movie. As is now being discussed in some online blogs, maybe we will see some copy-cat responses to belligerent bikers disobeying traffic laws by motorists who are fed up with their crap. Who knows....? While I am certainly not advocating or promoting proactive violent actions, I would not be all that surprised if at some point in the not too distant future someone will take it upon themselves to be a vigilante and recreate Max and his Interceptor and start patrolling the roadways searching for these misfit cyclists and...

1. They apparently did a similiar rally downtown NYC last year which this year, from what I read, the police stopped. Also, reports are saying they were trying to block the off-ramps on this highway for something.
2. Again, reports are saying he was being bullied into trying to exit so they can have the road--which might be why the bikers were singling him out.
3. I'm sure she did. Other thing I thought was odd was there was not one cop along the way that saw this or someone else that might have called in.
4. Probably had so many around him so quick he was surrounded before he could do anything.

My $.02

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SlickGT1 · #12 10-03-2013, 04:27 PM

I ride, and I agree with the RR driver. I can put myself into his shoes in an instant. My age is similar, so is my wife, and my oldest child. A dumb shit cuts me off in a pack, I have nowhere to go, he is getting hit. If I stop, there better not be anyone approaching my vehicle, or I will start running dumb asses over.

They are all lucky it wasn't me in that car. The first off ramp / on ramp I would see, would be my pinch point. I would have mangled a whole lot of that mob that day. No way would I stop for traffic. Put in reverse, depress go pedal to floor, stop, put in drive, depress go pedal. Repeat as necessary.

And If it was me in my F150, holy shit. Steel chrome bumpers, and 2' of body in front of engine. They would have to pull out those idiots with crowbars out of my grills and bed.

The first guy he ran over, is F****ed. He is in medical induced coma, broken spine and a whole lot of other shit. Too bad. Next time some dumbass tries to "stage" an accident against and SUV, maybe think twice.

A few of the bikers have been arrested too. And they are now looking for that dude that smashed in with his helmet.

Now thanks to these dumb shit clowns, us normal people, can't take out our bikes in this good weather we are experiencing. Why you say Slick, you weren't part of it. Yea, tell that to the cops who are pulling over every sports bike in the 5 boroughs, taking pictures of your shit, and interrogating you. I took my bike out yesterday, only to be pulled over 2 times 15 min after first stop. For nothing at all. I was let go both times, but each stop cost me, wait for it, 1 hour.

SlickGT1 · #13 10-03-2013, 04:35 PM

Oh and no one cares about why it started. You are a mob, attacking and making a car bend to your inappropriate rules. Count how many laws these guys broke before the shit hit the fan hard core. Improper use of space, removed and blocked plates, obstructing flow of traffic. Half of them most likely don't have licenses.

AVB-AMG · #14 10-03-2013, 04:49 PM

Since we are expressing our thoughts on what each of us would do in that hypothetical situation if we were the driver of that Range Rover and our wife and child were in the vehicle, how would we react...?

I agree that I would certainly become defensive. But would I also become aggressive and consciously attack bikers who, while swarming around and along side you have not done anything else than that. I don't know...

I would like to think that I would not do something consciously stupid or life threatening, but we all have a "snapping" point and it may be at a different point for all of us.

I know that when I am in the supposedly "safe cocoon" of my enclosed vehicles, I feel more ready to verbally condemn other knuckle headed motorists for doing stupid and/or unsafe things with their vehicles. I admit to having "shot the bird" to other motorists who have cut me off or have engaged in stupid behavior.

So at what point would each of us transform our behavior from defensive to offensive...?
Would it be once one or more of the bikers physically attack my vehicle? If so, would it have to be more that denting body panels, such as breaking glass windows?
Most likely, it would be at the point where in our conscious thinking, we jump from fear as our motivator, (i.e. drive away at a fast rate to attempt to escape the danger), to violent physical rage, (turning my vehicle into a weapon and actually use it that way to consciously inflict physical harm on as many cyclists as I could....).

This frightening video really does raise many questions for each of us and makes me think, "what would I do....?"

SlickGT1 · #15 10-03-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

Since we are expressing our thoughts on what each of us would do in that hypothetical situation if we were the driver of that Range Rover and our wife and child were in the vehicle, how would we react...?

I agree that I would certainly become defensive. But would I also become aggressive and consciously attack bikers who, while swarming around and along side you have not done anything else than that. I don't know...

I would like to think that I would not do something consciously stupid or life threatening, but we all have a "snapping" point and it may be at a different point for all of us.

I know that when I am in the supposedly "safe cocoon" of my enclosed vehicles, I feel more ready to verbally condemn other knuckle headed motorists for doing stupid and/or unsafe things with their vehicles. I admit to having "shot the bird" to other motorists who have cut me off or have engaged in stupid behavior.

So at what point would each of us transform our behavior from defensive to offensive...?
Would it be once one or more of the bikers physically attack my vehicle? If so, would it have to be more that denting body panels, such as breaking glass windows?
Most likely, it would be at the point where in our conscious thinking, we jump from fear as our motivator, (i.e. drive away at a fast rate to attempt to escape the danger), to violent physical rage, (turning my vehicle into a weapon and actually use it that way to consciously inflict physical harm on as many cyclists as I could....).

This frightening video really does raise many questions for each of us and makes me think, "what would I do....?"

Yea that is the thing, watching this video, and knowing the scene around here, I know from the get go, that I would not allow them swarm and follow me. You do not know if any of these guys are carrying guns or any other weapons, and I am willing to bet there were guns.

I would put them in a pinch point and smash up the front runners, at least to a point where it will be a challenge for them to follow me. And those that will be able to get through, will be much fewer in number. Speaking from experience, you lay out the front runners, the rest just punks in a mob, they will not attempt the same fate.

DunKeL GraU · #16 10-03-2013, 05:58 PM

I think the rider that is paralyzed is NOT the one that brake checked the RR. The paralyzed one is someone who I believe got ran over when the RR fled. Even more horrible if you ask me, that the original rider caused all of this, and for arguments sake also caused this other guy to be paralyzed.

I think the original rider was in court yesterday and was released on $1500.00 bail.

There is also some dispute here in NYC between the police department and the district attorney office, who feel that the police department is making arrests too quickly.

SlickGT1 · #17 10-03-2013, 06:12 PM

Yup, the brake checking guy was in court.

I agree sux for the paralyzed guy. But don't forget, he chose to be in front of the RR, and was riding along side it. He is also not licensed. Not that I'm happy he is perma effked.. His life, if he lives will never be the same.

1naztyx5 · #18 10-03-2013, 09:11 PM

Apparently both parties underestimated each other, The RR driver didn't think it would be a problem for him to get in the mix of the riders, and probably figure "they'll move" and well... they didn't , this is what agitated them to begin with , they wanted to own the HWY.

The Rider(s) saw him as an easy target for abuse and figure "what is he gonna do?" calling police and filling a report was not an option, most where unlicensed, unregistered Bikes and Riders. so messing with the asian guy was their "thrill" for the day.

all the speculations as to what happen? well it was a D1ck measuring contest where they all lost.

now as to what would we do in a similar situation, well it depends really... one thing is for sure if the RR driver would have started knocking down bikers along the way it wouldn't have made him any different than them. he just wanted to get his family to a populated location so they had a better chance.

ard · #19 10-04-2013, 01:16 AM

Interesting to watch this unfold...in media and opinions.

While it is easy to call them thugs and a mob, the legal question is more nuanced. Specifically is the range rover driver criminally or civilly responsible for the injuries Miezes suffered? As pointed out above he was not the guy that started it (ie 'brake check guy).. so what is his responsibility?

Points to consider:

He didnt have a license
He has over 15 citations on record.
he was wearing a mask to hide his identify
Reportedly plate removed from the bike.

Does he have a history of participating with such a pack? did he know what was likely to be done during the even?

Clearly after the incident, when Miezes was run over, the acts of the mob became physical and agrgessive and the driver had a right to defend himself...but at the point he bumped into the one bike, and others began attacking the car, it will be argued miezies was an innocent bystander.

There is an interesting nuance- that Leiu made a bit of an aggressive move- he honked when cut off, and the brake check guy decided 'yeah, we're gonna stop him'. It was a small challenge, but part of the cascade.

Anyway, when does the 'gang' become 'one' and the actions for one agaisnt you can be retailiated agaisnt with a strike agaisnt any of them? Conceptually it is easy- and with the comments above it is clear how some might react. But what if a biker said 'this guy was running over bikers so I called 911 and followed behind him to report to police- when all of a sudden he reversed up the off ramp and ran me over".

anyway, going to be interesting...

A

PS
I once got into it with another car, I was driving a rental. Ultimately I realized he was trying to ram me. It is actually quite hard to avoid immediate challeneges (other cars, him, traffic controls) but also make plans not to get 'trapped'....wild u turns, through parking lot, etc.... But in a panic, your brain shuts down, you are forced to make decisions in areas that you've never considered... Hence an interesting discussion to have...

ard · #20 10-04-2013, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

Since we are expressing our thoughts on what each of us would do in that hypothetical situation if we were the driver of that Range Rover and our wife and child were in the vehicle, how would we react...?

....

So at what point would each of us transform our behavior from defensive to offensive...?
Would it be once one or more of the bikers physically attack my vehicle? If so, would it have to be more that denting body panels, such as breaking glass windows?
Most likely, it would be at the point where in our conscious thinking, we jump from fear as our motivator, (i.e. drive away at a fast rate to attempt to escape the danger), to violent physical rage, (turning my vehicle into a weapon and actually use it that way to consciously inflict physical harm on as many cyclists as I could....).

This frightening video really does raise many questions for each of us and makes me think, "what would I do....?"

Interesting question.

My 'line' is physical contact: when they hit me, then my actions escalate. I'd like to think I wouldnt panic and wildly plunge into them, but rather push through the crowd. Same if blocked in with cars- first try and move them with force not impacts (which can damage your car)

But once 'free' then you are doing a few things- one, trying and preventing them from getting alongside, such that they could strike the glass, shoot, or disable. Second trying to maintain visual to see if anyone IS pulling a weapon. So controlling the paths around your car... stay in the right lane, anyone alongside gets swerved into: they can stay behind or ahead. Next, speed is NOT your friend. Think OJ chase. Speed just brings you up to a new, potentially worse situation: traffic blocked, red light, etc. (unless you can outrun the aggressor, dont bother.) Do things to attract attention, piss off other drivers, have them call 911. Finally think about an end game: obviously a police station would be good, but where else can you go? If it is one person, then maybe a evasive move or two could separate you, even if you are slower: an off ramp, across traffic.

just thinking and considering this kind of thing is a good conversation...

Oh, once saw a biker who was lane splitting have words with a driver -smacked his window, and then broke his mirror. I was right behind them, wondering where this was going.... I wrote down the bikers plate number on a biz card and pulled next to the other driver when traffic slowed and gave it to him. Not sure who was more surpirsed, the driver in the car, or the biker later on....

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