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  #331  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
So that line does bite me a bit raw personally as I think its a slippery slope, again, I am changing my situation for the better and thank you for your well wishes, but in our state of 9 million plus people and living here my whole life, I realize how much of a bubble we the people have been grouped into, and there is a ton of crime in our inner cities.

But yes we don't have to agree on everything and its nice to share opinions even though they may not match.
Yep, certainly understand the viewpoint. I just don't share the same "slippery slope" feeling/concern regarding keeping the weapon out of sight. Concessions and compromises have to made in any functioning society, business, friendship, marriage, etc. It is unrealistic to take a hard line stance on something that is not infringing on personal liberty for the sake of ultimate liberty.

I understand your libertarian ideals, and if we lived in a country of fair business practices, personal accountability, and representative government I'd be right there with you. Unfortunately we don't and I have to take a much more down the middle stance on many positions because it's what works with the amalgam of issues and people we have in this country. Lack of education, and self-thought for the the young, especially in civics is a huge problem for the country and why our government has ended up where it is with money being such a controlling factor in legislature, elections, and policy. But that's jumping down the rabbit hole and I could talk forever on the root problems our democratic republic faces (and the reason it will fall in the next 100 years).

I just can't wait to have my own little slice of heaven out in the country 20-30 minutes outside of a major city to get away from people all together. I consider myself super friendly but I find it harder and harder to tolerate the general populace on a regular basis because of a general lack people have of being able to see themselves through someone else's eyes. Or a lack of caring about others, both feelings apply.
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  #332  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:18 PM
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RE: slippery slope, this sums it up well.

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  #333  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:49 PM
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^Again, reductio ad absurdum. I own guns, am not for disarming the public, and want private citizens to be able to conceal carry. You giving me the same spiel you would give an anti-gun protestor. Which, to me, says you are only capable of believing a 100% unregulated firearm policy is acceptable. That may have been true when the second amendment was penned... but it is most definitely not true now. Plus, we now have more than one gun for every man, woman, and child in the country... the government is not going to disarm the public anytime soon. Trust me, we are going to have a revolution over the wealth gap loooooooooooooong before gun policy ever gets that heated.

But like I said, completely different beliefs... one side has their mind made up, usually ends in a lack of communication because it doesn't go anywhere. Welcome to Congress (both sides fit the closed minded nature though unfortunately). This is what's wrong with America... plus the aforementioned lack of education in civics and participation.
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  #334  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:54 PM
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The problem is I can see where you both come from (at least you have to laugh at that graphic it's not a bad illustration)

My thing is I don't believe that the government wants complete confiscation. However they want to whittle down the 2A over time so it basically means absolutely nothing and exists in theory. Yes there are a lot of firearms in this country owned by people. But if all you can do is look at them in a safe and not give them their intended purpose (a tool of self defense in your daily life and the equalizer against those who would try to do harm to you or others), then the 2A is moot.

Come live in NJ for a while and you will understand. I can buy long guns. But I need to apply for a Firearms ID card issued by the state which takes 30+ days initially. And that card enables me to buy handgun ammunition as well. If I want to buy a pistol I need to go through the same process as applying for an FID card, you can only buy one handgun every 30 days, and a permit is needed for each purchase. The permits are good for 90 days and if you go back to your police dept the chief can extend them for another 90. But they will expire after 180 total days and you'll need another one.

I already mentioned we are not allowed any form of carry outside the home if you are not a political elite or LEO. I mentioned the transport fear in our state. Notice how little the 2A actually exists here?

My problem is it's the 2nd Amendment, it was written right after free speech, assembly, petition, and religion. It's not a 10th Amendment issue but over the last 100 years every state in the country decides how much of the 2nd it will allow its citizens to enjoy. And it's overbloated keep the people in check government bullshit if you ask me.

My remaining 2 pennies.

On the other hand, my wife got fingerprinted today (I forgot to mention that you need to do that when you get your Firearms ID), and God willing, in another week or two, our police department will call and say her card and pistol permit is ready to pick up, and I can finally go to my FFL to get her G42 that's been sitting there waiting a few weeks now. I may actually get one more pistol permit and get one more handgun before I leave officially, just because.

Can you tell I'm ready to be out of here yet?
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  #335  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
My thing is I don't believe that the government wants complete confiscation.
You're right, they don't... and couldn't even if they wanted to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
However they want to whittle down the 2A over time so it basically means absolutely nothing and exists in theory. Yes there are a lot of firearms in this country owned by people. But if all you can do is look at them in a safe and not give them their intended purpose (a tool of self defense in your daily life and the equalizer against those who would try to do harm to you or others), then the 2A is moot.

Come live in NJ for a while and you will understand. I can buy long guns. But I need to apply for a Firearms ID card issued by the state which takes 30+ days initially. And that card enables me to buy handgun ammunition as well. If I want to buy a pistol I need to go through the same process as applying for an FID card, you can only buy one handgun every 30 days, and a permit is needed for each purchase. The permits are good for 90 days and if you go back to your police dept the chief can extend them for another 90. But they will expire after 180 total days and you'll need another one.

I already mentioned we are not allowed any form of carry outside the home if you are not a political elite or LEO. I mentioned the transport fear in our state. Notice how little the 2A actually exists here?
I agree, and understand your frustration with NJ. If enough people leave NJ (as you're doing), or vote on 2A candidates things could change. But the fact is, gun owners are in the minority @ ~33% of households as of 2015 I believe. It's going to keep going down as more and more rural areas are turned into suburbs or cities. That's how a democratic republic works... if more people want gun control than don't, that's what should happen, in theory. Now, you throw in money, lobbying, special interests, etc and who knows what you end up with. I don't know what the NRA spends, but I'm guessing it's A LOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
My problem is it's the 2nd Amendment, it was written right after free speech, assembly, petition, and religion. It's not a 10th Amendment issue but over the last 100 years every state in the country decides how much of the 2nd it will allow its citizens to enjoy. And it's overbloated keep the people in check government bullshit if you ask me.
That's what the libertarians and the right wing want though isn't it? State's rights, not Fed making all the rules? I'd be for a Federal 2A law governing all the states so long as it included the stuff I mentioned and left out open carry. But that's me, as we've covered.

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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
My remaining 2 pennies.

On the other hand, my wife got fingerprinted today (I forgot to mention that you need to do that when you get your Firearms ID), and God willing, in another week or two, our police department will call and say her card and pistol permit is ready to pick up, and I can finally go to my FFL to get her G42 that's been sitting there waiting a few weeks now. I may actually get one more pistol permit and get one more handgun before I leave officially, just because.

Can you tell I'm ready to be out of here yet?
Sweet. Enjoy the new toys!!! Sucks you have to jump through so many hoops... but we are talking guns here, not stamps, video games, or other hobby. At least you live in NJ and not the UK.
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  #336  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
You're right, they don't... and couldn't even if they wanted to.
Actually, we were thisclose to having a president who wants to confiscate guns: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...rth-looking-at


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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
That's what the libertarians and the right wing want though isn't it? State's rights, not Fed making all the rules? I'd be for a Federal 2A law governing all the states so long as it included the stuff I mentioned and left out open carry. But that's me, as we've covered.
There is already a Federal 2A law on the books. It's called the 2 Amendment found in the Bill of Rights.




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  #337  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
^Again, reductio ad absurdum. I own guns, am not for disarming the public, and want private citizens to be able to conceal carry. You giving me the same spiel you would give an anti-gun protestor. Which, to me, says you are only capable of believing a 100% unregulated firearm policy is acceptable. That may have been true when the second amendment was penned... but it is most definitely not true now. Plus, we now have more than one gun for every man, woman, and child in the country... the government is not going to disarm the public anytime soon. Trust me, we are going to have a revolution over the wealth gap loooooooooooooong before gun policy ever gets that heated.

But like I said, completely different beliefs... one side has their mind made up, usually ends in a lack of communication because it doesn't go anywhere. Welcome to Congress (both sides fit the closed minded nature though unfortunately). This is what's wrong with America... plus the aforementioned lack of education in civics and participation.


Actually I used to be of the "reasonable restrictions" mindset. But as our previous president did with gay marriage, I evolved on the subject.

After watching WA pass a stupid law making private transfers illegal and having our state attorney general push for an AWB, I've had enough. I'm done making concessions until the gun banners make some concessions for me.

Now if the Hearing Protection Act passes, I'll be a happy camper.


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  #338  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by edogg View Post
1. Actually, we were thisclose to having a president who wants to confiscate guns: Hillary: Australia-style gun control ‘worth looking at’ | TheHill


2. There is already a Federal 2A law on the books. It's called the 2 Amendment found in the Bill of Rights.
1. Would have never happened.

2. You know what I meant.

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Originally Posted by edogg View Post
Actually I used to be of the "reasonable restrictions" mindset. But as our previous president did with gay marriage, I evolved on the subject.

After watching WA pass a stupid law making private transfers illegal and having our state attorney general push for an AWB, I've had enough. I'm done making concessions until the gun banners make some concessions for me.

Now if the Hearing Protection Act passes, I'll be a happy camper.
There is no having productive discussion with a fundamentalist... so you do you boo boo. And I bet you'd be happy if the HPA passes. Give me one valid scenario for a silencer? Seriously, I'm curious.

If you are unhappy with your state's gun laws, and they are that important to you, then you need to move. Or vote, and convince massive amounts of others to vote if you are unable to move. I agree private transfers (sales I'm assuming) should most certainly be legal, as they are here in the good state of TX. I'd certainly have been unhappy about that as well.

Obviously I have no gun in the fight (see what I did there) as I live in soon to be the most lax state in the country regarding gun laws. I simply oppose open carry as it completely disregards the other patrons of an establishment. Fortunately establishments retain the right to refuse service.
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  #339  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:18 PM
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I'll give you a few good reasons for a silencer:

1) home defense. Guns are loud. Guns inside are even louder. Do you want to expose your children to that in the event there's an intruder in your home?

2) shooting outdoors without pissing off neighbors. There are some ranges in residential areas.

3) shooting a lot without damaging your hearing. Even with muffs and plugs, gunshots can damage your hearing

4) accuracy. The additional weight on the muzzle helps reduce recoil.

Now, tell me reasons why not a silencer. And keep in mind that if HPA passes they will be treated like a firearm so there will still be a purchase background check. You just won't have to wait 8 months for the Feds to give you permission.

When I say "transfers" I mean giving a gun to someone else. Loan, gift, or sale. 594 is such a POS law that even if we're out hunting and my rifle fails so I want to use yours, we'd have to go to a FFL and perform a background check. And want your rifle back? There's another background check. Got a concealed pistol license? Doesn't matter. Still have to do the check. Your life-long friend is in the army and getting deployed so wants you to hold on to his collection? Each gun needs a background check. Oh and these checks aren't free because of the paperwork involved (they are logged in the FFL's record book). Most FFLs charge $30-50 per gun.

What's the point of a law like that other than to create hassle? It hasn't reduced crime one bit. In fact the only time it's been invoked is as an add on charge to some drug charges.

I think it was you that mentioned how much the NRA spends on lobbying. Unfortunately, here in WA, the NRA was outspent something like 10:1 by Bloomberg's organization during the I-594 election. So who really has the deep lobbying pockets?

At this point in my life, I can't move. But I sure as hell vote. Unfortunately, the Seattle area has a huge number of liberal voters who keep voting for tax hikes (my car tabs are going up by $200 this year because of a new tax) and anti-gun laws. If you look at a county breakdown, 594 was voted down in a majority of counties. But still passed because of Seattle's massive influence on the state.

So yeah...gun owners have made lots of concessions. Let's have concessions made back our way.


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  #340  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:21 PM
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Oh I should mention that while I support people's right to open carry, I choose not to. I don't have time to explain to people that open carry is legal. But I also don't care if my gun prints under my shirt.

Scarlet Witch from The Avengers has a good saying: I can't control the fear of others; only my own.


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