Confederate Battle Flag Issue - It is about time...

[Happy]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Who say we can’t find common ground.

Yeah you keep telling yourself that. Maybe one day you’ll actually believe it.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by Happy

Yeah you keep telling yourself that. Maybe one day you’ll actually believe it.

I gave your post two thumbs up and you come back with this? Looks like you're the one that doesn't believe in common ground.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by upallnight

I gave your post two thumbs up and you come back with this? Looks like you're the one that doesn't believe in common ground.

Remember you came here to make somebody Unhappy.

There was never common ground, only disdain from you.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by Happy

Remember you came here to make somebody Unhappy.

There was never common ground, only disdain from you.

How do you know it was you?

Well if that how you feel about me "Bugger Off"

[Happy]

Originally Posted by upallnight

How do you know it was you?

Well if that how you feel about me "Bugger Off"

Hey, you and I have shared this site for nearly 9 years. I don’t think either of us are going anywhere.

Maybe we should just all learn to live in peace with one another.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by Happy

Hey, you and I have shared this site for nearly 9 years. I don’t think either of us are going anywhere.

Maybe we should just all learn to live in peace with one another.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by upallnight

So we are all right with this image of a rioter/insurgent parading around inside the Capitol with a Confederate flag?

Seems like gaslighting to ask if anyone would be okay with that image. But no, that man should be arrested with all the others present inside the Capitol's restricted area. Which I'm sure has already happened. Last arrest count I saw was 52, but that was back on Thursday so it could be higher now.

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by upallnight

So we are all right with this image of a rioter/insurgent parading around inside the Capitol with a Confederate flag?

upallnight:

No, not at all.... I feel just as strongly now as I did five and a half years ago when I started this thread with my lengthy post, which I will not repeat here.
January 6, 2021 was a very sad day for the United States of America.

Unfortunately, I now realize that for some people in our country, they are still fighting the Civil War. Reading our country's history, most of the freedoms and advances given to black Americans after the Civil War were effectively reduced or eliminated with the end of the Reconstruction period and the institution of the Jim Crow laws in the South.

In my opinion, the election of President Obama truly outraged many bigoted and racist Americans, countering the false sense that we may have entered a "post-racial society". Well that was a pipe dream! As we have seen over the past 4-5 years with Donald Trump's winking and dog whistles to various, previously marginalized hate groups, that then became more brazenly direct and less veiled, resulting in emboldened these bigots and racists to crawl out from under the rocks they have been hiding and make themselves heard on online chat rooms, blogs and websites. We saw many of those people at Trump's rally's over the past number of years and most frighteningly at the mob march on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, These people use the Confederate Battle Flag as an icon for their hatred of anyone who does not look like them: who is not white.... Therefore, these people need to be arrested and charged with the crimes they committed and let a judge and jury determine their guilt and if found guilty, have an appropriate fine and sentence imposed upon them for their bad choices and actions.

AVB-AMG

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Seems like gaslighting to ask if anyone would be okay with that image. But no, that man should be arrested with all the others present inside the Capitol's restricted area. Which I'm sure has already happened. Last arrest count I saw was 52, but that was back on Thursday so it could be higher now.

crystalworks:

While I agree with your stated sentiment here, it really does not matter what you or I alone believe the meaning of the Confederate Battle Flag (CBF) is or represents. What is important is what the majority of Americans believe the symbolism of the CBF is today and therefore why the stated have now decided that is was no longer appropriate for it to be seen or flown over public buildings or on publicly owned property or as part of a state flag.

What most Americans now understand is that the CBF was not some harmless cultural signifier of southern pride and states rights but was also the most conspicuous and polarizing symbol of group of states that wanted to leave the union in order to preserve their agrarian economy that was fueled by the institution of oppressive slavery.

As has been stated over and over in the national press, the debate over the fate of the CBF, pits people who know the truth against people who will not accept it. Five years ago, it took the horrific act of a deranged 21 yr. old, avowed white supremacist, who posted photographs of himself holding the CBF, while espousing in his manifesto a desire to initiate a race war, then murdering nine black people praying inside a church in downtown Charleston, SC to finally put on center stage one issue of strong symbols in this country and motivate amongst the general public a growing sense of outrage and offense that was even felt by many white conservatives who had previously supported the CBF. It took that horrifying act to shred the lies, to shame those who took pride in their unwillingness to be shamed, and to finally lead the South Carolina state legislature to make the right decision on the CBF, to allow at least that state to turn the page of history and move forward.

I think most of us agree that these historical symbols of hate should be eradicated as much as possible because that is the right thing to do. But I also believe that most of us understand that what they represent will never disappear and will only evolve into other, newer symbols.

AVB-AMG

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

What most Americans now understand is that the CBF was not some harmless cultural signifier of southern pride and states rights but was also the most conspicuous and polarizing symbol of group of states that wanted to leave the union in order to preserve their agrarian economy that was fueled by the institution of oppressive slavery.

I would have hoped the majority of Americans would have been aware of that already. Doesn't say much for our public school system if they weren't.

And to be clear, I would never fly the CBF on my personal property, nor supported it being flown over State or Federal buildings.

I do support the flying of it on personal vehicles or property (not governed by an HOA) no matter how heinous doing so may seem just as the ACLU defended white supremacists constitutional rights.

There will ALWAYS be crazy people who for some reason or another believe in something or another. We aren't going to eliminate that by eradicating symbols. Better to learn what those symbols actually mean (as you mentioned) and be reminded of them. Besides, I prefer people labeling themselves crazy publicly... makes it easier for me to avoid them.