I'll take Covid in Floriduh for $100...or "Is DeSantis toast?"

crystalworks · #1 10-22-2021, 12:33 PM

Looking at VAERS, deaths from all vaccine manufacturers are 8974. 190M Americans are now fully vaccinated. That's 0.005%, acceptable odds for me and my family. Others may come to a different conclusion as they see fit.

Myocarditis cases appear to be very low, and permanent damage resulting only ~20% of those cases. https://www.aappublications.org/news...s-rates-061021

Look, I've learned already that trying to convince someone on either side of this issue is an exercise in futility. I tend to fall down the middle, as I do on most issues. A reason can be found to support just about any position.

And that's fine, I'm certainly not trying to impune your service to country or its ideals. Both my parents are military, many other family members have served, and I admire all members of the armed services. Yourself certainly included. Again, I am generally against mandates on citizens, but when it comes to schools... with the data currently present, I believe we are better off vaccinating than not. I just ask the same courtesy of not impuning my pride in being American. This country has its share of sins, the citizenship is a mixed bag, and our politicians greedy a$$holes. But I'd rather live here than anywhere else in the world.

EODguy · #2 10-23-2021, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Looking at VAERS, deaths from all vaccine manufacturers are 8974. 190M Americans are now fully vaccinated. That's 0.005%, acceptable odds for me and my family. Others may come to a different conclusion as they see fit.

Myocarditis cases appear to be very low, and permanent damage resulting only ~20% of those cases. https://www.aappublications.org/news...s-rates-061021

Look, I've learned already that trying to convince someone on either side of this issue is an exercise in futility. I tend to fall down the middle, as I do on most issues. A reason can be found to support just about any position.

And that's fine, I'm certainly not trying to impune your service to country or its ideals. Both my parents are military, many other family members have served, and I admire all members of the armed services. Yourself certainly included. Again, I am generally against mandates on citizens, but when it comes to schools... with the data currently present, I believe we are better off vaccinating than not. I just ask the same courtesy of not impuning my pride in being American. This country has its share of sins, the citizenship is a mixed bag, and our politicians greedy a$$holes. But I'd rather live here than anywhere else in the world.

CW

Didn't mean for you to take it as impugning your pride, etc. only that too many people just take whatever they are told as gospel since it comes from a tv anchor, politician, doctor or whatever with the belief that they MUST know correctly. But many of (if not all) get some kind of messiah complex and refuse to even make a cognizant argument for their position.

I check everything and that's why I'm still alive. I had a doctor keep saying an MRI wouldn't be a problem for me even though one of my injuries is from frag. If I had just accepted his "expertise" the MRI most likely would have pulled the metal through my intestines or liver.

I view this vaccine/virus issue based on odds.

Let's say in one area you have a 10% chance of getting covid19 without being vaccinated, if you do catch it you (1-25 years old) have a 99.7% chance of survival....

If you get the vaccine you have a 50% chance of some side effect.

If you're unlucky enough to be one of the 50%, then as a male (1-25) you have a +/- 20% chance of getting it being life altering myocarditis.

Those odds make the risk higher for children to get the vaccine vs. covid19 and remember to figure the age/sex not just for side effects but for risk of death from covid19.

Most numbers are done as say 150,000,000 total vaccinated vs 25,000,000 (15-25) vaccinated of which 50% are male and 20% getting myocarditis = huge risk numbers

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bcredliner · #3 10-23-2021, 07:40 PM

See blue inserts of CDC information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy

CW

Didn't mean for you to take it as impugning your pride, etc. only that too many people just take whatever they are told as gospel since it comes from a tv anchor, politician, doctor or whatever with the belief that they MUST know correctly. But many of (if not all) get some kind of messiah complex and refuse to even make a cognizant argument for their position.

I check everything and that's why I'm still alive. I had a doctor keep saying an MRI wouldn't be a problem for me even though one of my injuries is from frag. If I had just accepted his "expertise" the MRI most likely would have pulled the metal through my intestines or liver.

I view this vaccine/virus issue based on odds.

Let's say in one area you have a 10% chance of getting covid19 without being vaccinated, if you do catch it you (1-25 years old) have a 99.7% chance of survival....

If you get the vaccine you have a 50% chance of some side effect.
If you're unlucky enough to be one of the 50%, then as a male (1-25) you have a +/- 20% chance of getting it being life altering myocarditis.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html
The study shows percentages of each side effect and also shows the percentage of individuals in the study that had side effects even though they were given a placebo rather than the vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm[
Summarizing the report---No one died of Myocarditis. Treatment was simply anti inflammatory drugs. Most fully recovered. Mostly males 12-29. Of 11,000 unvaccinated cases of Covid that required treatment-- 4598 were hospitalized, 1242 ICU, 700 deaths with 39-47 cases of Myocarditis to be expected or .00427%

Those odds make the risk higher for children to get the vaccine vs. covid19 and remember to figure the age/sex not just for side effects but for risk of death from covid19.

Most numbers are done as say 150,000,000 total vaccinated vs 25,000,000 (15-25) vaccinated of which 50% are male and 20% getting myocarditis = huge risk numbers

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crystalworks · #4 10-25-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy

CW

Didn't mean for you to take it as impugning your pride, etc. only that too many people just take whatever they are told as gospel since it comes from a tv anchor, politician, doctor or whatever with the belief that they MUST know correctly. But many of (if not all) get some kind of messiah complex and refuse to even make a cognizant argument for their position.

No worries. I forget how the politics forum can get under my skin at times. Why I take breaks from it, hah, maybe I'm due for another.

I agree, those relying on MSM for their news are either lazy, easily led, or don't have the internet. That last one is probably unlikely in these days of smart phones. I don't care which of the major news outlets you watch, read, or listen to... they all have an agenda. It's their business. They need to make money to survive.

I tend to get most of my news from tech sector commentators as most news nowadays is at least tangentially tech related. They have no sponsors or income on the line so aren't afraid to just call it as they see it.

I do have to disagree on your figures based on what I've seen. You'd have to give some sources of that as I'm not seeing how you're arriving at some of those percentages. I had to go look up the myocarditis stats as I was concerned after reading your post since we will be choosing whether or not to get our kids vaccinated in the next couple of months. But when I looked it up the numbers did not look like they had a large risk. I'll keep an eye on it though and since our munchkins won't be back in a school setting around groups of people until Aug 2022... we have time to wait a few months after vaccine approval if we wish.

EODguy · #5 10-27-2021, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

No worries. I forget how the politics forum can get under my skin at times. Why I take breaks from it, hah, maybe I'm due for another.

I agree, those relying on MSM for their news are either lazy, easily led, or don't have the internet. That last one is probably unlikely in these days of smart phones. I don't care which of the major news outlets you watch, read, or listen to... they all have an agenda. It's their business. They need to make money to survive.

I tend to get most of my news from tech sector commentators as most news nowadays is at least tangentially tech related. They have no sponsors or income on the line so aren't afraid to just call it as they see it.

I do have to disagree on your figures based on what I've seen. You'd have to give some sources of that as I'm not seeing how you're arriving at some of those percentages. I had to go look up the myocarditis stats as I was concerned after reading your post since we will be choosing whether or not to get our kids vaccinated in the next couple of months. But when I looked it up the numbers did not look like they had a large risk. I'll keep an eye on it though and since our munchkins won't be back in a school setting around groups of people until Aug 2022... we have time to wait a few months after vaccine approval if we wish.

Here's a link to an aggregator of actual medical studies.

I don't know about the aggregator site but I'm just too lazy to post 91 links

https://brownstone.org/articles/79-r...ed-and-quoted/

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