What's your take on the shooting of Dr. George Tiller

[chile1]

I'm also a father (of two) and neither my wife nor I would ever exercise this choice unless my wife's life was in grave danger. However, I cannot force that personal IMORAL (yet lawful) decision on anyone else. At the end of the day, those making this decision (justly/unjustly) will need to face the consequences from their maker.

MrLabGuy.....you are way off topic and are very wrong about my political inclinations - been living in San Francisco too long. Seems to me that you are at the FAR FRINGE of the conservative ideology..

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by chile1

I'm also a father (of two) and neither my wife nor I would ever exercise this choice unless my wife's life was in grave danger. However, I cannot force that personal MORAL (yet lawful) decision on anyone else. At the end of the day, those making this MORAL decision (justly/unjustly) will need to face the consequences from their maker.

MrLabGuy.....you are way off topic and are very wrong about my political inclinations - been living in San Francisco too long. Seems to me that you are at the FAR FRINGE of the conservative ideology..

Another example of you coming to a conclusion without the facts. Just so you know how far off you are I'll clue you in on my FRINGE Conservative ideology.

I've voted for as many Democrats as Republicans since I've been able to vote which I've done every election since I was eligible to cast a ballot. I was on a political committee for Bill Clinton so you can see I'm pretty involved and don't just talk politics on chat forums.

Wagner and I are pretty much middle of the road; however, we might be viewed as being Conservative because we are both strong on personal responsibility.

Besides...Your big mistake in this debate is equating "Legal" with "Moral". Both are not synonymous.

Stick around and pay attention. You might learn something.

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Another example of you coming to a conclusion without the facts. Just so you know how far off you are I'll clue you in on my FRINGE Conservative ideology.

I've voted for as many Democrats as Republicans since I've been able to vote which I've done every election since I was eligible to cast a ballot. I was on a political committee for Bill Clinton so you can see I'm pretty involved and don't just talk politics on chat forums.

Wagner and I are pretty much middle of the road; however, we might be viewed as being Conservative because we are both strong on personal responsibility.

Besides...Your big mistake in this debate is equating "Legal" with "Moral". Both are not synonymous.

Stick around and pay attention. You might learn something.

OT: I for one love when people think I am a Republican Now back to the topic, whatever that is.

I think we all came to the same conclusion, what this guy did was pre-meditated murder of another human being. Case closed. Not really much to discuss on that topic. Abortion as a whole is another topic entirely.

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by Wagner

OT: I for one love when people think I am a Republican Now back to the topic, whatever that is.

I think we all came to the same conclusion, what this guy did was pre-meditated murder of another human being. Case closed. Not really much to discuss on that topic. Abortion as a whole is another topic entirely.

Yep...I lean Libertarian but alas. We are a two party system regardless of what label the candidates use behind their names on the ballot. My vote is usually for the lesser of two evils and I'm not always right as you can see with my involvement in the Clinton campaign.

This last election I was pulling for Mitt Romney.

What were we talking about in this thread?

Oh yeah.

[chile1]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Another example of you coming to a conclusion without the facts. Just so you know how far off you are I'll clue you in on my FRINGE Conservative ideology.

I've voted for as many Democrats as Republicans since I've been able to vote which I've done every election since I was eligible to cast a ballot. I was on a political committee for Bill Clinton so you can see I'm pretty involved and don't just talk politics on chat forums.

Wagner and I are pretty much middle of the road; however, we might be viewed as being Conservative because we are both strong on personal responsibility.

Besides...Your big mistake in this debate is equating "Legal" with "Moral". Both are not synonymous.

Stick around and pay attention. You might learn something.

RE: [Your big mistake in this debate is equating "Legal" with "Moral".] Let me explain it so you can understand. It's legal to cheat on your wife (i.e. to commit adultery) - you've not broken any criminal laws that will put you behind bars. However, it's morally incorrect to do so, or is it not. If you are religious, both abortion and adultery are mortal sins in the eyes of God.
The point I was trying to make before you started on your name calling rant (see post #19) was that as immoral as it may be to have an abortion after 21 wks, it's still a legal right under the current law. End of story!

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by chile1

RE: [Your big mistake in this debate is equating "Legal" with "Moral".] Let me explain it so you can understand. It's legal to cheat on your wife (i.e. to commit adultery) - you've not broken any criminal laws that will put you behind bars. However, it's morally incorrect to do so, or is it not. If you are religious, both abortion and adultery are mortal sins in the eyes of God.
The point I was trying to make before you started on your name calling rant (see post #19) was that as immoral as it may be to have an abortion after 21 wks, it's still a legal right under the current law. End of story!

Morals are defined by each individual, no two persons moral code will be identical. That is the problem with letting morals influence logic and law. Morals do however need to play some role to create some semblance of a 'society'. And moral code has very little to do with religion. One can be Atheist and believe murder is wrong or cheating on a spouse is wrong, it has zippy to do with a floating guy looking down on you.

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by Wagner

Is the murder of the doctor justified, no. Is abortion a sensitive and detailed topic, yes. How do I feel about abortion in the 21st week (late term) should be illegal..

Couldn't have said it better.

I am pro-choice, but IMO the only reason abortions in the 3rd trimester should be legal are for medical reasons, period.

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by FSETH

Couldn't have said it better.

I am pro-choice, but IMO the only reason abortions in the 3rd trimester should be legal are for medical reasons, period.

Which, ask any doctor, are very few and far between. A baby of 1lb can be saved, which means by the 3rd TMester, you should be able to take the baby right out.

[Dannyell]

An expecting mom would probably not choose abortion in the 21st week just because she doesn't want to be a mom anymore...and if she wants abortion w/o her life being threatened then there is something very wrong with her...

[Wagner]

Ron Paul makes a great point, when on the View he said "what if a doctor was asked to abort a 8 month old fetus that weighed 8lbs, would you be OK with that?"

The response was "no that is murder", well he said it is completely legal under the law. So he responded you aren't OK with abortion, you're only OK with it when it is what you agree with.

That is the problem with the entire abortion debate. Ron Paul also pointed out that as a doctor if he did something that adversely effected a fetus he could be sued because it is a 'life' so how is abortion then not qualified as 'murder'? That is the catch 22 of the whole debate. I think most clear minded individuals would see that a 15 year old who is raped should have the right to abort that fetus, but a 17 year old who has unprotected sex with her boyfriend should have limits as to when she can pull the plug. Now RP's direction is 'never' my direction would be that you have 15 days from conception to make that choice, after which there is no choice to be made. But that is me. You'd also have the whole can of worms of 'what if you knew something would be wrong with the baby?'.

The true problem with an abortion discussion is that individual morals get it VERY heated. That is because it is hard to be logical when discussing life or lives, and picking when and where you can effect them.

I know some chicas that have had abortions, some for what I would call..sadly..'the right reasons'...others I would say were doing it as a make shift after the fact birth control.