What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by motordavid

The school kids may/are probably at low risk for serious effects of CV 19, other than the anecdotal death/serious afflictions from the virus. I think many of us are aware of that v slight impact on school age children...

Back to snooze, and dodging the fookin Cooties...Be safe and careful out there.
GL, Ol'UncleMotor

Agree with EOD. Thanks for the reasonable opinion MD. I agree with all of it I think.

Our politicians, and system in general, has been bought and paid for. Democrat or Republican doesn't matter. Just look at the policies they enact, both sides going against traditional party beliefs but they get away with it because of "team" politics. That, and our news media is garbage furthering the team entrenchment. News should be dry and boring, but informative and straight.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by EODguy

You probably don't realize that since February to 11 July that in the entire United States there were (30) thirty deaths from covid19 in children aged (15) fifteen and below per the CDC.... Also understand that even children with compromised health have been through coronavirus without issue many more times than adults with the same health conditions who have had a harder time with covid19.

You seem to base your entire objection to things based upon your political stance and not on facts. I find that extremely disingenuous especially since you say Trump doesn't care about the people only the economy yet you don't care enough about the people to realize that those same people will be either living in a tent or trying to swap a sofa for a bag of groceries if they don't get an income stream restarted.

If you have ever played slots, cards, etc for money you have taken a greater risk with your financial wealth than you would be if you went to work/school now based on percentages only (350,000,000 ppl vs 125,000 deaths) everyone in the world today will die (fact) but out of those positive covid19 cases 4% have died. Now take 125 thousand and divide by 350 million and that is the actual percentage chance you have of dying...

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Back to using your go to word- disingenuous

My view about national leadership would be the same regardless of who is president if they were handling the COVID 19 pandemic as Trump is.

Human life is sacred and it is vile to purposely put anyone at risk. And it is not just about putting children in harms way but that the children infected, regardless of their low risk of death, will potentially infect adults and individuals at high risk. How many children or adults infected, hospitalized, in ICUs or die is too many?

I do care about those that have financial difficulties. How will low income folks that contract the virus pay their hospital bills when so many don't have health insurance? The fact is that going back too soon as many states have done and/or not following CDC guidelines for opening is putting those same people at risk of infection or worse. I think the count of states that have a rising number of cases is now around 39. We already have 5 alarm fires, about 70,000 new cases everyday and rising so lets pour gas on the flames and send children back to school?

It is clear both financial strife and containing the virus are in conflict. It is also clear what it takes to bring the virus under control. Unless we abide by the CDC guidelines both will be much worse over the longterm. At this point the scales are obviously tipped in favor of re-opening. Some states are already rolling back their opening plans or mandating masks because of the ensuing spikes. So when it gets to the nut cutting they know what the right thing to do is.

It is appalling that Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart etc are leading the way mandating masks. What does that say about national leadership when major retailers are doing more than the Trump administration to get COVID 19 under control? Other countries and some states have put together very similar plans that have been successful getting the virus under control. And national leadership doesn't have the sense or doesn't want to use those successful plans as national models and influence states to abide by those successful plans?

[ard]

Saying 'both sides are bought and paid for' is a gutless cop out, IMO.


Trumpism has brought this country to its knees. In almost every aspect.


Those conservatives and republicans that sit by and let Trump and his 4th tier grifters continue to fleece and scam, and justify this with 'yeah they are all corrupt' disgust me. You sat around and chortled at the misfortune of the lefties when Trump blitzed through the primary campaign, happy to cheer him on for your entertainment....now you own the disaster we all face. Your hatred of "the left' has allowed you to be co-opted by criminals. Own it.

[ard]

Originally Posted by EODguy

You probably don't realize that since February to 11 July that in the entire United States there were (30) thirty deaths from covid19 in children aged (15) fifteen and below per the CDC.... Also understand that even children with compromised health have been through coronavirus without issue many more times than adults with the same health conditions who have had a harder time with covid19.

You seem to base your entire objection to things based upon your political stance and not on facts. I find that extremely disingenuous especially since you say Trump doesn't care about the people only the economy yet you don't care enough about the people to realize that those same people will be either living in a tent or trying to swap a sofa for a bag of groceries if they don't get an income stream restarted.

If you have ever played slots, cards, etc for money you have taken a greater risk with your financial wealth than you would be if you went to work/school now based on percentages only (350,000,000 ppl vs 125,000 deaths) everyone in the world today will die (fact) but out of those positive covid19 cases 4% have died. Now take 125 thousand and divide by 350 million and that is the actual percentage chance you have of dying...

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This is the kind of simplistic thinking that the conservative crowd seems to really attach to. Any explanation that involve expertise, are rejected in favor of math they can do on a watch calculator it seems.... no wonder Trump controls the non-college educated crowd... what rock are you living under to divide two numbers and declare that is 'todays' risk????????


What is your risk of dying if you get sick need a hospital and all beds are full? Calculate that number for us. Furthermore, lets say it isnt coid. lets say it is something else. Tell us what two numbers to divide.


(And declaring that' the media is wrong and hospitals being full is a hoax' is not an answer.)







So kids. Kids dont die from covid. Who gives a F? Thats not why they cant go to school.


Having a population of kids going to school every day will create a massive reservoir of infection. Heres how:
- Kids will not be tested regularly
- They will only get tested when they show symptoms
- Due to our slow testing results, HIPAA laws, etc, it will be days and weeks before test results are communicated to schools. Actions will be slow
- Disease will spread quietly across the entire school population
- Families that need childcare- that need kids in school so they can go to work- will be over-represented in the kids in school. These tend to be adults that go ON to have otehr contacts outside the home, every day.

- Families that think it is all a hoax will likewise be over-represented in this population


Meanwhile, after a few weeks of school, these kids are going home every night. Infecting everyone in the family. Weekends at the mall, with older family members.


The idea that kids dont get it, kids dont die, kids dont pass it along AND- importantly- when they are 'going to school' there is some kind of bubble around them such that the only environment in which they interact is 'school' - is woefully simplistic.



Finally, another FOX talking point: Other countries have done it. LOL. Countries which have testing. Countries that have CONTACT TRACING. Countries that have their pandemic under control. We have idiots here in the USA that refuse to wear masks, that refuse to talk with contact tracers ("Im an American, if I wanna kill myself its my G D right, boy! Aint gonna talk with no pinko wanting to know where I was")


Sorry to be so short, people are dying, people are ignorant, and ive just had it with BS.

[Maruzo]

Everyone here is pretty set in their ways, imo it’s not wise to try And convince others of your opinion In our current situation.

But we can express our thoughts and explain why we think the way we think, and let others absorb and perhaps take with them something they did not think of before.

I see a lot of common grounds in bc, Motordavid, and ards’ posts. That’s a pretty decent start.

[YervArhocho938]

US population is currently about 331M, not 350M, as someone erroneously claimed earlier.


World population is roughly 7.8B.


Confirmed cases in US currently at 3,763,395. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html


26.6% of world total vs. 4.2% of world population


Deaths in US currently at 140,477. (same source)



23.2% of world total vs. 4.2% of world population


Many more are affected by serious ongoing health problems, if they recover, including children. Just one example: https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...VID-19-in-kids



Yes, there are different standards of testing and reporting statistics, and some countries, like China, are opaque, but more than five times the average on both measures? We’re the most advanced, greatest country on Earth, right? What happened? Did God decide to not bless America???


Trump’s tally of false and misleading claims is now above 20k after about three and a half years in office https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...eading-claims/. Naturally, many of these are repeats.


His failure to pay attention to the early President’s Daily Briefs on the virus and give credence to the continuing developments in the medical community, instead being led by his instincts and what he watches on TV, and blame others instead of taking responsibility has cost us all dearly. Literally $5T between new debt and outlays by the Fed, with more to come but, more importantly, thousands upon thousands lives and families destroyed unnecessarily.


Even his most ardent apologists, faced with these facts, unless totally blind, can see he is an incompetent, dishonest, manipulative, faithless, vile, evil, scared, inhumane, caustic man, hiding behind bravado, bullying and vanity. Hopefully, November halts the huckster’s histrionics and we can get back to the imperfect yet, remarkably less evil and corrupt norm of American politics.


Evil:
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked.
2. harmful; injurious.


(used above in both senses)



TL,DR Wear a mask in public, socially distance, support contact tracing, listen to the medical community and be considerate of others.

[EODguy]

Originally Posted by ard

Any explanation that involve expertise, are rejected in favor of math they can do on a watch calculator it seems.... no wonder Trump controls the non-college educated crowd... what rock are you living under to divide two numbers and declare that is 'todays' risk????????


1st. I quoted the experts at the CDC!

2nd. Funny that you "assume" that I am not college educated (I am and I have Bachelors degree in business) but hey a trigger puller can't possibly be smart huh?

3rd. I don't have access to US television channels since I am here in the Middle East (almost exclusively UK, French and Japanese networks) and rather watch in English, but I do speak Spanish, Pashto, Arabic (not well)

4th. As for the math that seems beyond your grasp a basic college course in statistics would help you figure out how to run a statistical analysis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

What is your risk of dying if you get sick need a hospital and all beds are full? Calculate that number for us. Furthermore, lets say it isnt coid. lets say it is something else. Tell us what two numbers to divide.

5th. Not sure what "coid" is Mr. Educated but that number is imponderable since even at the peak in NYC there were still bed spaces available, so if you can pull those numbers for the USA I'll be your Huckleberry and help you with the math.




So kids. Kids dont die from covid. Who gives a F?

6th. I never once said that kids don't die from covid19, hence the CDC numbers listing fatalities of those under 15 years of age.

7th. I do give a fuck about life especially childrens lives but a risk that has to this point caused less deaths in children than household poisonings or even undetected heart conditions in children of the same age group is completely insane.


The idea that kids dont get it, kids dont die, kids dont pass it along AND- importantly- when they are 'going to school' there is some kind of bubble around them such that the only environment in which they interact is 'school' - is woefully simplistic.

8th. Never said that or suggested that but as we can tell being "woefully simplistic" is apparently your comprehension level.

Finally, another FOX talking point: Other countries have done it. LOL. Countries which have testing. Countries that have CONTACT TRACING. Countries that have their pandemic under control. We have idiots here in the USA that refuse to wear masks, that refuse to talk with contact tracers ("Im an American, if I wanna kill myself its my G D right, boy! Aint gonna talk with no pinko wanting to know where I was")

9th. I'll say it again since I am positive you don't understand... I'm in the Middle East and don't get Fox news nor any of the others such as NBC, CBS, ABC. I get Sky news, BBC, NHK, France24 and Al Jazeera.



Sorry to be so short, people are dying, people are ignorant, and ive just had it with BS.

A false apology and the perfect example of "disingenuous" if there ever was one.

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[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by EODguy

...If you have ever played slots, cards, etc for money you have taken a greater risk with your financial wealth than you would be if you went to work/school now based on percentages only (350,000,000 ppl vs 125,000 deaths) everyone in the world today will die (fact) but out of those positive covid19 cases 4% have died. Now take 125 thousand and divide by 350 million and that is the actual percentage chance you have of dying...

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Assuming chance of dying from COVID is 4 %, are you suggesting that we as a country is over reacting to this pandemic? That we are wasting away trillions and turning the economy backwards for nothing?

I know you haven’t said any of this, but is this what you are thinking?

I personally know a lot of people who are still not taking this seriously. And yes, none of these people are COVID positive.

That does not mean this isn’t the most serious health crisis this world has ever seen since the 1918 influenza.

There are many parallels between both occurrences, read up and you’ll know.

[EODguy]

My point of this is that in the USA you have a 1.13% chance of catching covid19 and if you do catch it you have 3.73% fatality rate.

Which equals out to a 0.04% chance of being a fatality.

I am using the numbers as provided by Yerv for this post.H/T

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[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by ard

Saying 'both sides are bought and paid for' is a gutless cop out, IMO.

Certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't belong to a party, and have lost faith in the Republic, or at least the electoral process we use to service the Republic. I vote based on the candidate, not the letter by their name. Trump was allowed to win because the Democrats assumed the status quo. Well, it changed. And now we have the Cheeto in Chief making America look foolish. I did not vote for him, I won't in November. Nor will I vote for Biden, unless he picks one hell of a running mate.

But, what makes us (meaning Americans) look worse than Trump? The fact that both sides believe their party to be in sole possession of all the right answers. And so we entrench ourselves in red or blue. Politics have become a religion. Them vs us. Tragic.

But, again, it doesn't matter anyway because our politicians aren't interested in serving us. Corporations want to do something illegal, or against the interest of the consumer? No problem, we'll add some legislation to a 500 page bill and sneak it through for you. See Ajit Pai at the FCC for numerous examples of corporate servitude (he's an ex Verizon attorney btw). Trump is a result of the flawed system, not the catalyst for one. Though he's definitely not making things any better. But neither did Obama. Not discounting his administration before I get jumped on. Obama had some successes, but overall, it was business as usual. He got my vote first term and lost it for his second.

We can all exercise our rights to vote, suggest we do so. Even with my pessimism I drag my ass to the booth every four years (more frequently than that obviously for local/State).

As for the virus, we are going to homeschool this year. Fortunately, we have that option. I feel for parents who both work and are losing income/jobs or are having to send their kids off to school and risk the health of the family. Returning to school is one of those lose/lose decisions that each district will have to decide on. The virus has highlighted problems in our society that existed prior to Trump, and will remain long after. It's human nature to want to place blame. We are in a pandemic, it's going to suck no matter what paths we take. Especially with the shortcomings mentioned above, both social and political.

Not sure why I wasted time typing all that, as maruzo already pointed out, opinions are unlikely to change. I suppose because we are a social species.