I've been to Port Townsend. It's beautiful. We did the rainforest hike just South of you. Awesome.

This thread seems to have gotten off-track about winter tires though...

And +1 for despising Edison. Ever hear of Tesla? He was responsible for sooo many tech inventions back in the day.

Bell, too. Thieves. All of them.

So true.

My Great Grandfather (moms side) worked for Edison in Menlo Park. Mom has a copy of the employment contract, his workers were not allowed to EVER mention what they worked on, even post employment. He collected ALL the glory!

I did a history paper on Americans who changed the way we live while in high school. Picked Edison, and came away thinking far less of him after finding out how he operated!

I feel the same way about Columbus and many of the other early explorers/conquistadors.

Hard to imagine how a thread about winter tires is now talking about the discovery of north america and explorations to the moon in relation to German vs. American engineering might. . .but i like it.

Personally I think the whole german vs American thing is pretty clear. Being an American mechanical engineer, I have noticed that there are different kinds of engineers. You got the business minded, practical hands on guys, and the book smart ones. Germans are incredibly book smart (and perfectionists) almost to a fault and they seem to lack a lot of the practical and business sense. Americans are decent inventors but we are great at producing and marketing. Someone mentioned Henry Ford. Henry ford was an incredibly smart guy but he didn't do anything ground breaking in terms of engineering he just took the automobile (which was totally a german invention) and found ways to build them for the masses. Germans have invented a ridiculous amount of things but generally there not good at making these things well rounded or marketable. Their just great at making / innovating precise perfectly functioning things. Random example - every major advancement in boat drive design in the past 100 years has come from volvo (German) yet mercury is still quite dominant and just uses volvo's designs.

Personally I think it is to bad that Americans do not know more about Germany. We learn a decent bit about Roman and english history but nothing about Germanic. Our language was derived from Germanic and anglo saxons were Germanic and it was Germans that brought down the Roman Empire (albeit slowly). Hitler was off his rocker but it is pretty hard to argue that as a whole there is a pretty solid gene pool sloshing around over there.

[QUOTE=racingbmwm3;973911][QUOTE=bcredliner]
I do have duct tape and paper towels and some mints..
Oh yes, duct tape is the cornerstone of my first aid and emergency repair kit, not for you? : 34 Different Ways to Use Duct Tape for Survival & Emergencies | Wake Up World

I am getting back to you. Who's us? I mentioned my parents, I didn't say it was years ago.

I don't think it matters much what tires you have on for snow and ice if you don't know how to drive in those conditions and if you know how to drive in those conditions it doesn't matter matter what tires you have on.

It's all about "merican marketing!

Everyone knows the Wright bros where first in flight. Right?.......Wrong!

It was a German born Bavarian, he beat the "bros" by over 2 yrs.

Wright Brothers Not First to Fly | Flying Magazine

The Wright bros got recognized by signing a contract with the 'merican gubment giving them the Wright Flyer, ONLY as long as they NEVER mention Whitehead.

Good discussion, but it belongs in the lounge not in the E53 forum.

From the perspective of a Canadian mechanical engineer who has worked with automakers on product development (as a Tier 1 supplier) I disagree re Henry Ford. He did do ground breaking work, but it was as much on cost engineering and manufacturing engineering as it was on vehicle design engineering. I wouldn't underestimate the impact, however.

I think that generally the Germans have been very strong on marketing their engineered products. Think of the global brand awareness, that is a specific measure of their marketing success. In a list of 2012 global brand rankings, Mercedes was #12, BMW was #13, and VW was #39. Only Toyota had a stronger global automotive brand (#11). Top America automaker was Ford, at #45. The rest of the top 100 included Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, Audi, and Ferrari. No other US automakers other than Ford.

I've never been to Volvo in Germany. I have been to their global head office in Sweden several times though. Germany contributed quite a bit of technology with the ZF azimuth thrusters, and that brings us back to vehicle transmissions at least, with a BMW parallel.

I think driver skill and experience is important. But as to your second point, if one knows how to drive in those conditions one is very likely to have the appropriate tires on their vehicle. It is directly related to that oft-repeated phrase about their being old pilots, and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.

I don't disagree with the old bold pilot thing though I don't think it is necessarily an applicable analogy.

If we are discussing those living in an area that snowing in April is a ho-hum, snowmobiles are using drifts for jumps, the coffee thermos is empty before they get to work, a trunk full of sandbags only makes their vehicle look funny, there is no traction control, no ABS, and no DSC, one headlight and red tape over the broken taillight, I would modify my opinion. Better yet, they should sell what they have and buy something that makes sense, at least fix the headlight so they don't blind me with their brights.

If we are discussing E53 X5s or many vehicles made in the last 10 years, I stick by my opinion for other than extreme conditions--the bold pilots are out there in extreme conditions with the afterburner blazing. I am not saying winter or snow tires won't help. I am saying that all those driving inappropriately, in winter conditions that have an OH S$%Ts moment, would very likely be screamers driving a snow plow with chains.