Can front subframe move left to right?

[Flyingdutchman]

Hi

My 2005 e53 N62 has quite a big difference in front axle camber between left and right. My question is if there is enough play in the front subframe to shove it over a few mm?

//R

[Effduration]

No. At least not from the front.

I replaced my front subframe recently and the front subframe connection point/bolt has a relatively tight locating pin on both sides. Becasue there are 2 locating pins, I don't think the rear of the subframe can move much either.

There are 3 subframe bolts down each side, the middle and rear bolts don't have locating pins.

[Flyingdutchman]

Yes, I guessed so, thx.

[andrewwynn]

Originally Posted by Flyingdutchman

Hi

My 2005 e53 N62 has quite a big difference in front axle camber between left and right. My question is if there is enough play in the front subframe to shove it over a few mm?

//R

Camber is locked at the factory with a pin. If that’s removed your can adjust a little bit. There isn't a camber adjustment on the control arm like rear, the top of the strut tower three bolts have a little wiggle room. (When the pin is removed)

That said, the bottom metal plate is structural and attached at the factory with 72,000# of force. If it's put back on "ugga dugga" style or "goodntight" that force will drop 50-80% and will no longer be effectively structural; only acting as a splash shield. One bad pot hole while braking could change your front geometry says BMW. (They are very strict to never drive without the structural stiffening plate and to replace all the single use TTY bolts).

If there’s a radical difference left/right I would suspect a worn ball joint or bushing. (Or stiffening plate turned splash shield). The factory option for camber is very limited but there is an aftermarket kit with eccentric bolts that hold the knuckle to the strut that allows a lot of camber adjustment you can dial in full range.

With 1200# of force in each front corner it’s very hard to find a loose ball joint without compressing the springs. If you have air springs your can let out the air and it’s ∞ easier!

Many examples can be found of a front suspension refresh (which is quite economical on the e53), will bring the car back to like new status.

I would first try to determine if any of the ≈ 12 bushings/bearings are worn and allowing play to affect camber then I’d pull the factory pins to agent to get them aligned equally.

Importantly: if tires aren’t wearing unevenly and you don’t track your car, odds are you’ll be just fine leaving it.


–awr–

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[Flyingdutchman]

Pins are already out on mine. Had bad outside tire wear.
Most links and balljoints also replaced.
I have -1 degree left and 0 on the right side. So right side still has outer tire wear. Left side has very even tire wear now. I'll look for the aftermarket kit because I was about to put the grinder to the holes in the strut....

[Flyingdutchman]

Ooo, camber bolts ordered, no idea it was that easy

[andrewwynn]

Camber doesn’t cause tire wear. If you have tire wear it’s really never camber related it's toe.

It's not from set toe usually it's from the toe changing while braking and accelerating.

Find the ball joint that moves and allows the wheel to "toe in" while braking you will usually find the culprit.

Case in point:



56,000 miles on this tire and edge to ride perfectly even tire wear. Camber is not the cause!


The other extreme: this tire has maybe 25,000 miles and it's twin from the opposite side has half it's tread left and even edge to edge wear.

There's no doubt the control arm and/or rose ball joint is shot on this corner.

It's not "always" but it rounds to always a ball joint causes these redneck wear bars.

New ≠ fixed, follow the symptoms if traces to a suspension arm, new or old still is a suspension arm. It's possible something as simple as tighten bushing while suspended can cause such an issue but usually a worn ball joint. All rubber bushings need to be tightened while the suspension is loaded. I use a jack to lift up on the rotor until the weight is off the jack stand then just bring it down to touch.

I just bought new tires for wife's car and the one won't last two months if I don't find the worn ball joint and replace it.

Backing up: are you saying you actually have positive camber? (Suggesting outer edge wear)? My front tires wear on the outer edge normally but that's because I rarely brake for turns. 6000# shifting towards the outer edge of the outside front tire will do that just laws of physics. How bad is the wear??


–awr–

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[Flyingdutchman]

Thanks again Andrew. Your knowledge is amazing around these cars.

I had both left and right outer edge sawtooth wear in the first years I drove this car. Since then pretty much all has been improved/renewed on the front. I read about the sawtoothing and some people suggested removing the pin and giving it more camber. Since then I have no more sawtoothing but lately still outer edge wear on the right side, Last wheel alignment showed right side had about zero camber.

But steering wheel is also slightly offset again so might also include some toe.

I'll get the camber bolts and have the alignment redone.

Thanx again.

[Clavurion]

Can you show us the alignment report so we know the whole picture and ballpark of camber difference.

There is minor play in connecting points but if summed up, it can make a difference for example if the shocks or lower arm inside bush is torqued with/without weight on. Bear in mind that for example the shocks can be distorted for example from a side impact accident causing significant alignment issue even if you can't see any problem on the part with naked eye.

[oldskewel]

I believe camber can cause tire wear through this process:

(consider everything perfect other than right front camber being less cambered than the left - same example @flyingdutchman has here)

camber asymmetry causes a pull to the left or right. The right in this example.

driver wants to stay on the road, go straight, so on average he steers to the left to counter the pull

the constant turning input scrubs the tread on the left front tire that is always fighting the camber pull.


I recently had this exact situation on one of my other non-BMW cars. Pull was slight and it took me so long to get around to it, but the camber and tire wear lined up perfectly, so I conclude this was definitely the situation for my case. New tires, and driving straight again.