2000 4.4 Problems Starting

[sf_mike]

I see this on my invoice

61-36-8-373-700 RELAY

Does that help?

[supersteve]

Very much. Thank you.

Under the hood in the computer box infront of the passenger side there is a starter interlock relay. There are about five of the same relay used on the X5. It is white/green. I will switch one of them around at a time to find the "week link".

I'll let you all know.

[HellzMindPlaya]

Thank you very much for the information, I will run down to the dealer and pick up one and change one out till it doesn't have anymore starting problems!!!

Thank You Thank you Thank you!!!

[supersteve]

Anybody else have an idea? I switched three relays around, all with the same P/N. No help. The only remaining one with that P/N is the fuel pump relay which I can't locate. I think I have to pull the glove box out to get to it. Any help would be appreciated.

[HellzMindPlaya]

Where is the unloader relay and what does "RELIEF OF CLAMP R" mean when pertaining to a relay? If you look at realoem.com at the image of the relay panel in the luggage compartment that is one of the descriptions for what on of the relays with the 61-36-8-373-700 part numbers is used for.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...62&hg=61&fg=25

Here is a link for all of the uses of that relay in all BMW Xs.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref....ur=&series=E53

I pulled down the glove box and changed out the fuel pump relay with one from the rear window defroster. NO CHANGE.

[supersteve]

I don't know. On my X5 I don't have three relays in the back as shown on realOEM. I have the one Green one for the defogger and that's it for the green ones back there. I also have the two in the engine compartment which I swapped around. Also no help.

HMP I think were barking up the wrong tree. I'm starting to think this may have something to do with the throttle valve.

Lets just make sure we have the same symptoms:

Get in and turn the key to #2. Let it sit for 5-10 secs then start. It starts right up.

If you get in and turn the key right to start, Sometimes it does, sometimes it cranks forever untill you stop it and try again.

If I pull it out of the garage on to the driveway without letting it warm ALL the way up, it's a pain the @$# to start again no mater what ritual I try.

Changed the fuel filter and regulator.
Switched all the relays except the fuel pump relay around. You switched the fuel pump relay.
Every switch and sensor I disconnect for Troubleshooting sets a code. This problem has yet to set a code. Even with the code reader connected and the starter cranking away for all she's worth.

[HellzMindPlaya]

Guess what... it started without any trouble for 2 weeks, then last week it was back to square one. I'm having the same trouble again, although now it seems to start up on the first try 1/3 of the time instead of 1/10 times. Pisses me off to know that I paid $240 to the dealer and I'm exactly where I started. In any case, I'll email a copy of the invoice so you can take a look.

-Mike

Well i talked with my indy shop today and along with the research I did last night have concluded that they switched out Mike's unloader relay, which is used to unload electronic items at start up and then again when the car is going to sleep... So it shouldn't be the cause of our problem.

We have similar if not the same symptoms...It doesn't really mater if I let the car set for say, 10 seconds in the #2 position, or if I jump in and turn the key all the way to the start position. Sometimes I will be driving down the road and the X will just die, for no good reason. I have had it happen at a stop light, and have had it happen both only seconds into the drive and many minutes into it.

My indy shops guess today was that it could be my EWS software that needs updating, because with my first service of the car I had them (indy shop) update my DME with new software but they don't have the EWS software. Of course that is just a guess on his part, and he kinda told me to take it the the Stealer...

The EWS System is the Immobilizer System.

[supersteve]

Well, I was digging around yesterday. I pulled the crank position sensor and cleaned some fuzz off of it. Reinstalled it. I also found a vacum leak in the blue/black hose running from the switch on top of the engine down to the fresh air injector valve. Still have the same symptoms.

I'm thinking of changing the water temp sensor today. It could cause an over rich situation that would choke out the engine. When it does start after not starting it smells a little rich. It also retards the timing. I don't know I'm grabbing at straws right now.

When I go to the Stealer I'll ask for a price on the update for the EWS and DME software. I hope it doesn't hurt too much

[sf_mike]

Well, I'm officially back to square one. The problem has returned once again. It worked fine for 2 weeks after taking it to the dealer, but now I'm out $240 and back where I started. Looks like it may be worse too... Took over 5 minutes of trying this morning before it started, and in addition to that, it died on the bay bridge in traffic at 60mph last night, not a fun experience.

[supersteve]

Question. . .What spark plugs do you have and how old are they? Ok that's two questions.

Grab a cocktail, kick back and read all stuff I found out.

I went to the dealer and was able to discuss our problems with two of the mechanics. This is what I found out.

The difficulty with starting after a short run (pulling out of the garage on to the driveway) is a problem know to BMW and is said to be "NORMAL". The engine loads up with fuel on a cold start. If the engine isn't warmed up to normal operating temp it doesn't clear out. The following start (or attempt) floods the engine. Which leads to the Cranking forever then starting with a puff of smoke.

If you are throwing codes (engine light on if you don't have a reader) stop and replace what ever it is calling for. If you are not throwing any codes read on.

The only spark plug that can handle the "NORMAL" over rich condition on start up is the OEM NGK plugs in good shape. If they have over 75k miles they should be changed if having these problems. They should last 100k but operating conditions vary.

Reprogramming the DME and/or the EWS doesn't fix it.

At 104k miles it was happening occasionlly. I replaced the OEM NGK plugs with Bosch platinum 4 plugs because of the mileage. The problem got better and now has come back in a couple of thousand miles and it is even worst.

I also asked about the sudden stalling. They explained that the plugs could also cause this. A weak sparking plug can have the fire blown out by the fuel injection. I am not so sure that all eight candles will get blown out at the same time; but, at this point things are unclear.

They also went on to say that if the vehicle is parked and there is a large change in outside air temperture the computer becomes confused. It remembers the temp @ shut down. The changing conditons throws the mixture off to the point where it won't start. For this reason they suggested turning the key to the #2 position for a few seconds prior the cranking. This gives the computer a chance to sample the air temp and adjust before cranking.

All that being said, I pulled the Bosch plugs out and put in the $15 each OEM NGK plugs I bought at the dealer. With tax almost $130. I was surprized how bad the Bosch plugs looked after having less than 4k miles on them. The bases are covered in carbon and the insulators around the center electrode have uneven flame patterns burned into them (candle being blown out).

I replaced the plugs yesterday and the problem hasn't raised it's ugly head yet. That's already better than before. We also had a drop of about 30 degrees over night. It started right up this morning after being parked outside all night.

Let me know what you think guys.