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  #31  
Old 06-20-2010, 04:31 PM
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Somehow you are right X5 Meister, me i would say that Dexron VI is a standard of quality. Nore VW, BMW, Mercedes or any other manufacturer did himself this norme and is not the owner of this norme. Even GM is not the owner of it.

Many petroleum groups are doing it under differents labels and brands. Therefor we can say that DexronVI is good for you however is the brand.

BMW use this missunderstanding to sell it own fluide much more expensive than others.
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  #32  
Old 06-20-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck from Moscow View Post
Somehow you are right X5 Meister, me I would say that Dexron VI is a standard of quality. Not VW, BMW, Mercedes or any other manufacturer did himself this norme and are not the owner of this norme. Even GM is not the owner of it.

Many petroleum groups are doing it under differents labels and brands. Therefore we can say that Dexron VI is good for you however is the brand.

BMW use this missunderstanding to sell their own fluids much more expensive than others.
Well, I do agree that Dexron VI is a testable standard. There is a controlled certification process. Fluids that pass the GM test get to advertise that they do meet the standard. Dexron by itself is not a standard, it is a trademark, but Dexron III and Dexron VI are standards, or at least are related one-to-one to the associated GM standards.

GM is the owner of it.

When someone like Redline says that their oil is a suitable replacement for a Dexron III oil, that doesn't mean that they meet the standard. They are borrowing the Dexron name, with an untested oil, and hoping that consumers don't notice. It is a questionable business practice IMO. Redline are not listed in the GM certified fluid list posted above.

I agree that a fluid that meets the Dexron VI standard is good for a transmission that calls for such a fluid, but some of the confusion in this thread is that there are questions about ZF transmissions in the 4.4 model, which do not use a Dexron fluids.

BMW are not doing this to sell their own fluid. They don't want to sell fluid, they want owners to leave it alone in most cases. BMW is not in the transmission fluid business, probably because they are not in the transmission business.
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  #33  
Old 06-20-2010, 09:58 PM
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First, please realize that you will be far from doing a transmission "flush." Second, changing the fluid isn't exactly a simple drain and fill. There is a proper procedure that must be followed, the transmission must be cycled properly and in a specific manner, the fluid must be at the proper temperature throughout the process, etc. You certainly don't want to overfill or underfill.

Now as far as fluids are concerned, the -807 fluid is Esso LT71141. If I were going to do such a transmission job (and I personally wouldn't) I would most definitely use the same stuff that BMW used and only that fluid. So my suggestion is get yourself 9.5 quarts of this fluid and not monkey around for a buck savings here or there. Also get the OE filters and not some aftermarket or other OEM stuff that costs a few bucks less.

If you don't want to purchase the fluid from BMW in the 20 liter drum for $616.48 retail ($30.82 per liter) then I suggest you contact these guys (see post #1) and find out what price they give you:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-00-liter.html

Or order it from a place like Bavarian Auto:

Welcome to bavauto.com | Automatic Transmission Fluid - ESSO LT71141 - 1 Liter

Or shop around yourself for the best price and post your result. As far as Redline fluids or any other brand are concerned, I personally stay away from them. Could they be better, sure, but they could also be worse and given the other option is using OE fluid which I know is what the transmission manufacturer spec'd for that gearbox I would feel more comfortable using a product that the manufacturer knows works well. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Multibeemer View Post
Your're right, there have been quite a few threads on this subject. I've gone through them, and now understand that BMW part 83229407807, ESSO LT71141, and VW/Audi G-052-162-A2 are all the same thing, or at least are all compatible. But I have one follow-up question - I did a Google search on the VW/Audi fluid, and got a link from Redline which claimed that their D4 ATF meets or exceeds the specs of the other two fluids. I did a search on Redline D4 on this forum, and nothing came up. What are the opinions of this ATF? It's considerably cheaper than the VW/Audi fluid (about $10 a liter vs. about $15), but of course if there's any doubt, I'd gladly spend the extra five bucks a liter for the peace of mind. My X5 has 78,000 miles, by the way, and isn't exhibiting any transmission issues; I'm just interested in doing a tranmission flush as preventative maintenance. Thanks.
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  #34  
Old 06-21-2010, 02:59 AM
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To answer to JCL, i agree that BMW don't do himself his fluids, but try to hide the exact standard to sell the one with its own label.

I don't know in the U.S. but when you see how much cost a BMW fluid compared to other Dexron VI producer (as GM, AC Delco, Petrocanada by exemple), you understand that BMW is doing a huge profit on this fluid......
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  #35  
Old 06-21-2010, 03:05 AM
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I have to disagree that BMW is hiding the fluids in some way as you put it. The fluid for the transmission in question is quite simply Esso LT71141. That's not BMW's choice, that's ZF's choice.
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  #36  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:46 AM
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i wonder how many folks have gone without replacing their tranny oil for over 100k miles... and didnt have any problem with the tranny. i did hear from an ex bmw tech that bmw's claims to lifetime oil is because of their superior filter design. is this the case?
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  #37  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:34 AM
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Personnally, i think that from the moment you have high differences of temperature and frictions, nothing on earth is lifetime and lifetime guaranteed.

This is only good for BMW, if we change fluid ATF then we are not anymore under guaranty as we didn't rexpect their recommandations. Then all disfonctions of the automat is at our own costs (and we perfectly know how much it cost....). Better to change a 5.000$ automat than change fluid of it for 150$ and keep the original one. Business is business.

If it was so, then why our engines oil don't support the same specificities of lifetime guarantee, same for "bridges" front and back.....

It is pure commercial argument but not fact.

From a minus of their automat quality, BMW try to explain us than this is a big plus of super fluid quality...

.... Sometimes these germans are funny and so simple minds
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Franck from Moscow View Post
If it was so, then why our engines oil don't support the same specificities of lifetime guarantee, same for "bridges" front and back.....
You can't directly compare engines and transmissions, they are entirely different systems. Engines have a source of contaminants in terms of byproducts of combustion. You can filter out particles, but you can't take out the acids, etc. Transmissions are sealed, and have no exterior source of contaminants.

Many years ago, engine oil used to be a 3,000 mile item. Improvements to engines and oils have made that 5x, easily. We are headed for even longer. Transmissions used to be a 30,000 mile change. They can make 5 times that easily.

But we've had this thread many times already....
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  #39  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockmelon View Post
i wonder how many folks have gone without replacing their tranny oil for over 100k miles... and didn't have any problem with the tranny. i did hear from an ex bmw tech that bmw's claims to lifetime oil is because of their superior filter design. is this the case?
Many. And those transmission failures that have been reported, at any mileage, don't often sound like fluid problems. They often include reports of failed sensors, software problems, broken housings, etc. I am waiting to see a transmission failure caused by old or oil. BMW transmissions seem to be fail at random mileages, and fluid problems would shift the failures to higher mileages, with a more consistent failure point.

I don't believe it is because of the filter design. I think it is because things like the transmission cooler (with a temperature regulator), the lockup torque converter (far less heat into the system), the shift programming (crisper shifts, less wear on the clutches and less heat), and so on.
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  #40  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:41 AM
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Go with the Esso or leave it alone

I run Redline in my Diff's and XFer case but I won't touch the transmission. I had a faulty wiring harness in my tranny a year ago (acts like a bad MAF) and the TSB from BMW requires them to re-use the fluid from the transmission (not for $$ purposes)
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