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  #51  
Old 05-21-2013, 08:37 AM
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Bake pads and "warped rotors"

This was a common problem with the E36.

Sometimes, when braking, the wheel would shimmy, and it was very annoying. A lot of people complained about this.

Opinions differed as to the cause. Some claimed it was "warped" brake rotors and others went further to say they were warped by not torquing the lug bolts evenly or by using an air impact wrench instead of a torque wrench.

The problem would come and go, however, which is weird, as if it was a warped rotor, you'd think it would do it all the time.

Some folks pointed out that when braking very hard and then holding the brakes on, some types of pads would leave an "imprint" on the rotor surface. Their theory was that this imprint caused the rotor to "catch" slightly on subsequent braking, which would cause a shimmy since the rotors were no longer in sync, and each caliper would "grab" at a different part of the revolution.

Their solution was to run the car up to speed on an empty stretch of road, apply the brakes firmly to "burn off" this pad imprint, and then release the brakes so a new imprint didn't form. Oddly enough, this seemed to work on one of my cars that had this problem.

Changing pad types (and putting on new rotors) seemed to fix the problem permanently.

Check your wheel balance, too, as well as tire age. Like I said, those old Michelin's were about as hard as the wheels on Fred Flintstone's car.

Good Luck!

P.S. - bottom line, is, though, it is hard to get back that "new car feel" on a car that is 10 years old and has 150,000 miles. Drive the wheels off it and use it up. Move on to the next car.
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  #52  
Old 05-21-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Platt Bell View Post
This was a common problem with the E36.

Sometimes, when braking, the wheel would shimmy, and it was very annoying. A lot of people complained about this.

Opinions differed as to the cause. Some claimed it was "warped" brake rotors and others went further to say they were warped by not torquing the lug bolts evenly or by using an air impact wrench instead of a torque wrench.

The problem would come and go, however, which is weird, as if it was a warped rotor, you'd think it would do it all the time.

Some folks pointed out that when braking very hard and then holding the brakes on, some types of pads would leave an "imprint" on the rotor surface. Their theory was that this imprint caused the rotor to "catch" slightly on subsequent braking, which would cause a shimmy since the rotors were no longer in sync, and each caliper would "grab" at a different part of the revolution.

Their solution was to run the car up to speed on an empty stretch of road, apply the brakes firmly to "burn off" this pad imprint, and then release the brakes so a new imprint didn't form. Oddly enough, this seemed to work on one of my cars that had this problem.

Changing pad types (and putting on new rotors) seemed to fix the problem permanently.

Check your wheel balance, too, as well as tire age. Like I said, those old Michelin's were about as hard as the wheels on Fred Flintstone's car.

Good Luck!

P.S. - bottom line, is, though, it is hard to get back that "new car feel" on a car that is 10 years old and has 150,000 miles. Drive the wheels off it and use it up. Move on to the next car.

Wheel balance is spot on as friend just did roadforce balancing, hub rings are intact and I make sure to torque all wheels in a star pattern at 101 ft lbs each time. Tires are less than a year old.

I will try re-bedding the pads as well one of these days, although I don't have a shimmy while braking I have heard that pad deposits on the rotors can cause a shimmy.

I'm also biding my time because the entire rear suspension is original at 10 years old, I'm sure that has to be attended to as well. Trying to get it as good as I can get it to be able to enjoy maybe a year before I start replacing rear suspension parts, I had my rear wheels off cleaning the hubs and putting my aluminum hub rings on last night, and those rear wishbone control arms just look absolutely atrocious, rusted to all hell, although they seem tight so I'm not complaining for now.
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  #53  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:58 PM
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Ricky,

I need to go back and torque the bushing with the wheels on the ground to see if that will make a difference, thanks for the reminder. I am putting off the wheels alignment because I am also planning on doing my rear suspension as soon as I get some time off.
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyX5 View Post
Ricky,

I need to go back and torque the bushing with the wheels on the ground to see if that will make a difference, thanks for the reminder. I am putting off the wheels alignment because I am also planning on doing my rear suspension as soon as I get some time off.
Hey man just sent you a PM, before I start on the left side bearing I want to be sure that my right side is still good. I get steering wheel shakes on the highway most prevalent between 60-70 mph, no bearing noise however like I had before. And not under braking whatsoever, my front suspension is all new.

I think I always had the shakes up front but the combination of the bad bearing noise/vibration on that right side washed it out. Now that its all quiet again I notice the shaking on the highway that is still present, albeit less than before I replaced the right side bearing. I'm thinking I need my wheel re-balanced but wanted to be sure the bearing I just installed isn't damaged, I supported the inner race on reinstall and hub was tight once I got the axle back on there.

As well, I want to point out that I haven't done the front left side as planned yet, and for all I know the shakes could be coming from the left side bearing that is "starting to go", from what I read on here bad wheel bearings will creep up over time, starting with vibrations and then making more and more noise as time goes on.

I put my aluminum hub rings on all 4 wheels the other night, cleaned the hubs and torqued all to 101 lb ft so that is good, but still getting noticeable steering wheel shake on the highway. I probably shouldn't be asking for advice before finishing the other side should I? LOL
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105k miles -Topaz Blue/Schwarz/Titan Int. Trim/EHCII/Sport
Proud 3-Pedal owner, UUC SS/AFE/4.8iS Exhaust/Sharked
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  #55  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:22 PM
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I got your PM. I would take the wheel off and move the hub side to side. if you have play in the hub, then you messed up the bearing. If you don't have play, I would finish doing the other side, get a wheel alignment and balance. if that doesn't fix the problem, then I may replace the new bearing, just in case, but that will be my last result. Again, there are so many things that can be misaligned on the suspension that everyone have their own opinion on how to fix it. I fixed my vibration while braking by rotating my front tires. Now I know that must likely need a wheel alignment and balance.
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  #56  
Old 05-26-2013, 03:46 PM
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This doesn't pertain to the front wheel bearing, but thought I'd stick it here anyway. My son & I tore into the right-rear corner of the X5 this weekend to replace the wheel bearing and several other parts. It took us a couple of hours on Friday night and most of the day yesterday to remove & replace the bearing, ball joint, integral link, forward susp. link, wishbone, and parking brake shoes. Heck of a job. The only glitch came in with the wheel bearing; we finally got the inner race off of the wheel hub around noon yesterday (woohoo!) then took a break. My son went back out to the garage a few minutes ahead of me, and when I got there he had the new bearing pressed onto the hub already, but had it on backwards. Doh.

We hoped that since it had just gone on we might get lucky and get it off without tearing it up, but no dice. We'll chalk that one up as a lesson in following diagrams and thinking harder about taking steps that can't be reversed. $60. Good thing that was the first side we did, so we had another bearing in the box ready to go; it just means I'll have to order a replacement and we won't be able to finish the job this weekend like we had hoped. He'll just have to come back next weekend to help with the other side, which doesn't bother his mom a bit. After doing the one side, I'm confident the other side will go a lot faster.

Putting things back together went pretty smoothly. I can tell already that the rear wheel has lost it's negative camber and the fat-lady-in-heels look on that side. Haven't driven it enough to figure out if that was the bearing that was causing all the road howl or not.

I was kinda following in the steps of this guy's writeup for replacing a rear bearing the"Easy-Way!", but I sure didn't see a way to get at the bolts holding the wheel bearing without taking the wheel carrier off. But with all the other parts we were replacing, getting the wheel carrier free (almost) was not a big deal at all; the only thing we couldn't get loose was the parking brake cable, but that was easy to work around, so NBD. The fact that the rear wheel bearing bolts to the wheel carrier is the big difference between the procedures for the front & rear bearings; no need for a slide hammer or anything else to yank the hub loose.

Oh, and I decided to fab up a new tool to pull the splined axle into the hub (like this one except with a piece of iron pipe instead of a socket); I made one earlier and lent it to Ricky Bobby, but my welding job didn't hold up to the torque required to slide the axle through. My son has actually been trained on how to use a welder like the little MIG unit I have (I've only done stick welding, and that was many, many moons ago), so I had him do the welding. Well, this one didn't hold up either. It got the axle slid out a ways before giving up the ghost, but we ended up just using a slim dowel against the inside of the axle near the boot to tap it out far enough for the new nut to grab some threads. Before fitting the hub with the new bearing back on the carrier, we also spent some quality time with some penetrant and a wire brush cleaning up the splines on the axle and the hub, then applied some anti-sieze compound; I think that made a difference in getting the thing to slide into position easily. The axle sure didn't slide out of the hub easily.
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  #57  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:17 PM
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Dave, glad to hear your son was able to help you out, I'm sure it wasn't an easy job on the rear of the car, and I'm glad you're tackling the rear while I am finishing the front!

I am due to finish my other front bearing job with the outer cv boot on the front next weekend, I still have your socket and adapter to send back to you as well.

Also interested in your rear suspension parts replacement, did you order all OEM parts for the most part for replacement? The guide link and wishbone look pretty self explanatory to replace for the most part, could even do those on the car. The wishbone has a bunch of wiring running up it though which I think needs to be moved. The only thing which looks tough is the integral link/ball joint assembly, although could be done on the car, wondering what you used for pressing the ball joint out and back in? I know BMW sells a special tool for it (or did you tell me you purchased the special tool)? With the special tool, I'm sure if one was to leave the wheel carrier in place (i.e. if you were not replacing the bearings) you could probably replace each part one by one leaving the wheel carrier in situ, correct?

I'm not planning on tackling anything in the rear for at least a year to buy myself some time after my repair rounds this past year, just wanted your thoughts on that (if you want to keep on topic you can PM me!). Only thing I may need to do is get your subframe bushing tool and do those bushings, as I won't need alignment afterwards and I can get one of the rear suspension "trouble areas" out of the way.


EDIT: Dave, I bought two impact sockets from Harbor freight and am going to get them MIG welded with two axle nuts ground down (I had two extras, my CV boot kits each came with a new nut) and I will try to go easier on the "tool" when I do my left side, I'm hoping to have both intact and ready to send back to you after I'm done! I probably wouldn't have broken it originally, I think I put a quarter turn too much torque on it on the right side, but you know what they say the first side is the toughest because I'm learning what works and what doesn't!
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Proud 3-Pedal owner, UUC SS/AFE/4.8iS Exhaust/Sharked
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  #58  
Old 05-28-2013, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Dave, glad to hear your son was able to help you out, I'm sure it wasn't an easy job on the rear of the car, and I'm glad you're tackling the rear while I am finishing the front!

I am due to finish my other front bearing job with the outer cv boot on the front next weekend, I still have your socket and adapter to send back to you as well.
It was a bear of a job, and I know it would've taken me a lot longer to do on my own, so I was glad he was along for the ride too! No hurry on the socket & adapter (forgot I sent you that; we were looking for that adapter, but made do without it just fine! )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Also interested in your rear suspension parts replacement, did you order all OEM parts for the most part for replacement?
I ordered Lemfoerder replacements for all the suspension bits, and FAG bearings from BluntTech.com. I've never had a problem with Lemfoerder on my other cars, so I'm sure these will last a good long while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The guide link and wishbone look pretty self explanatory to replace for the most part, could even do those on the car. The wishbone has a bunch of wiring running up it though which I think needs to be moved.
The wiring & stuff on the wishbone isn't much of an issue other than the skinny little bolt that holds the whole shebang onto the wishbone; it's about two inches long and about 1/8" around. Nicely corroded nut, so the thing twisted the hex socket in the plastic when we tried to undo it. It did come off intact after we soaked it with PB Blaster & Liquid Wrench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The only thing which looks tough is the integral link/ball joint assembly, although could be done on the car, wondering what you used for pressing the ball joint out and back in? I know BMW sells a special tool for it (or did you tell me you purchased the special tool)? With the special tool, I'm sure if one was to leave the wheel carrier in place (i.e. if you were not replacing the bearings) you could probably replace each part one by one leaving the wheel carrier in situ, correct?
I did buy the tool from another member here, and it works a treat on the ball joint. I'll be renting that out at some point also, and should have it available when you're ready for the job. Here's an excellent video from BavAuto explaining the job: BMW DIY Video – Rear Suspension Lower Ball-Joint Bushing Removal-Replace E39 E38 Others | Bavarian Autosport Blog
We ran into one little snag reinstalling the new bushing though, and I'm not sure if we used the wrong cup for pulling it in or what; the cup we used had a lip around the edge that braced against the aluminum wheel carrier, and the lip wasn't deep enough to allow the ball joint to seat completely. It took us a couple of minutes to figure out what was up, then we just switched to a different cup and it was done. It's a pretty easy job with the tool. And the integral link is pretty straightforward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
I'm not planning on tackling anything in the rear for at least a year to buy myself some time after my repair rounds this past year, just wanted your thoughts on that (if you want to keep on topic you can PM me!). Only thing I may need to do is get your subframe bushing tool and do those bushings, as I won't need alignment afterwards and I can get one of the rear suspension "trouble areas" out of the way.
Let me know when you're ready! I may just rename this thread to cover front and rear bearings, as the jobs of replacing them are pretty similar in some respects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
EDIT: Dave, I bought two impact sockets from Harbor freight and am going to get them MIG welded with two axle nuts ground down (I had two extras, my CV boot kits each came with a new nut) and I will try to go easier on the "tool" when I do my left side, I'm hoping to have both intact and ready to send back to you after I'm done! I probably wouldn't have broken it originally, I think I put a quarter turn too much torque on it on the right side, but you know what they say the first side is the toughest because I'm learning what works and what doesn't!
You know, I was really surprised it took as much torque as it did to draw that axle back into the hub. We spent a little time cleaning up the splines on both sides and put some anti-sieze on it, but once I got it to a point where I thought I could thread on the new nut, it had pulled itself back into the hub when I removed the tool. The CV joint has a little "spring" to it and didn't seem to want to stay extended. It still doesn't make much sense that it took that much effort to draw it out, yet just the pull of the CV joint was enough to slide it back.
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  #59  
Old 05-31-2013, 08:37 PM
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Steering wheel vibration update

Hey Bobby, Don't forget to get that wheel alignment once you finish all your repairs. I decided to take the X5 to the dealer for a professional 4 wheels alignment and balance, and it was the best $129 investment in my truck, ever The vibration is gone, and the rear wheels don't look like they are about to take a seat. I was so happy when the service tech told me that it was only $129 for the alignment, but it didn't last long. I love that they do a courtesy inspection every time I take the truck in for any minor adjustment so that I can work on anything they find. Today, I almost had a heart attack. They told me that my spark plugs needed to be change and they were charging me $275 to take out 6 spark plugs(screws) and put 6 new one in I told him that I will pay for the spark plugs and put them in myself. I didn't realize that the damn spark plugs cost $23 each, still I saved $150 and it only took me 1/2 hour. Now I am ready for the long road trip to Cal and Washington St.
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  #60  
Old 06-01-2013, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyX5 View Post
Hey Bobby, Don't forget to get that wheel alignment once you finish all your repairs. I decided to take the X5 to the dealer for a professional 4 wheels alignment and balance, and it was the best $129 investment in my truck, ever The vibration is gone, and the rear wheels don't look like they are about to take a seat. I was so happy when the service tech told me that it was only $129 for the alignment, but it didn't last long. I love that they do a courtesy inspection every time I take the truck in for any minor adjustment so that I can work on anything they find. Today, I almost had a heart attack. They told me that my spark plugs needed to be change and they were charging me $275 to take out 6 spark plugs(screws) and put 6 new one in I told him that I will pay for the spark plugs and put them in myself. I didn't realize that the damn spark plugs cost $23 each, still I saved $150 and it only took me 1/2 hour. Now I am ready for the long road trip to Cal and Washington St.
Oh yeah the spark plugs were so easy! I just did mine with fresh NGK's 2 weeks ago, car runs so much better!

I'm finishing up the left side tomorrow, going to get alignment and balance this week later on! $129 for alignment AND balance? From the dealer? That is so friggin cheap man! Or was that just for alignment?
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Proud 3-Pedal owner, UUC SS/AFE/4.8iS Exhaust/Sharked
2013 X5 35D (CEO's) - Born on 5/17/2013 -
68k miles - Alpine White/Cinnamon Brown/Premium Pkg, Sport Activity/Premium Pkg and Sound/20" Style 214/Running Boards

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