Blue smoke on extended idle. 2006 4.8is. - Page 11

TerminatorX5 · #1 05-10-2013, 08:14 PM

i am going to get the codes read out, working on the laptop to get the things reinstalled...

meanwhile...

when i replaced CCVs, i have disconnected MAF, to clean it up, and of course, reconnected it... after i got the stutter on the idle, naturally, i thought, that the MAF is not plugged in right, so i unplugged it and replugged it... several times, with zero result... did all that plugging with engine off...

today, on the way home, the stutter was getting worse, and at one point i got flashing SES light which then set on permanently, and the engine was running very rough... I managed to make it home, and without turning the engine off, unplugged the MAF again... the engine surged, and then was running at a bit higher RPMs without the MAF... I plugged the MAF back in, and it felt like the stutter was diminished... so, i turned the engine off, turned it back on, it was running nice and smooth (MAF connected). I disconnected the MAF once more, with engine running. The engine surged, as in the previous instance, when it raced up - so, it made me think, that either a contact in the MAF somewhere is not good, the MAF is already bad, or the MAF is going to die rather soon...

damn computer is stubborn with that stupid VISTA... i need to read the codes and see what i have there... i will keep you posted...

pezho405 · #2 05-10-2013, 10:56 PM

Voltage wouldnt have much to do with with idling problems. Fariz, unplug your maf and drive around with it off, see how it changes anything, a friend in an m roadster killed his by trying to clean it and and made bad/rough engine running, driving withought it made it slower but not as rough

TerminatorX5 · #3 05-11-2013, 01:05 AM

Well, this is the beauty of the troubleshooting and diagnostics - pulling all the available brains to figure out where the likely culprit is... my idling was ok before i ventured into CCV and the MAF cleaning... after MAF, the idle became irregular - so naturally, i messed something up... plugging-unplugging the MAF did not yeild any positive results, checking for air gaps around the air intake shroud got nothing... so, i thought, something is going on deeper, just coincided with the MAF cleaning... I probably did not need to clean MAF, but I definetely had to change the CCV, as one was grossly torn...

unplugging the MAF one more time, while engine was running seemingly rectified the issue but raised concerns that something might be brewing in the near (or far) future...

I somehow managed to install the INPA on the VISTA machine and got some readouts - since I do not know if the values are good or not, hopefully somebody can let me know... the values are in the green, which makes me think, things are ok in general...

TerminatorX5 · #4 05-11-2013, 01:10 AM

based on the following, there might be an issue with cylinder 5... i am going to keep an eye on it and dig deeper... some of the airmass errors are from me disconnecting MAF while engine was running...

E R R O R M E M O R Y
---------------------------------------
Date: 10.05.2013 23:31:09
ECU: ME9N62_2
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: ME9N62_2
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 5 error in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
2E28 CDKDZKU1 - spark coil cylinder 5
Error counter: 9
Logistic counter: 37

1. Umweltsatz
Mileage 142504 km
Engine speed 2800.00 1/min
Engine temperature 90.75 Grad C
Relative air mass 95.31 %
Battery Voltage 14.04 V

2. Umweltsatz
Mileage 142640 km
Engine speed 2560.00 1/min
Engine temperature 99.00 Grad C
Relative air mass 95.31 %
Battery Voltage 13.75 V

3. Umweltsatz
Mileage 142984 km
Engine speed 2600.00 1/min
Engine temperature 96.75 Grad C
Relative air mass 99.61 %
Battery Voltage 14.13 V
Signal not plausibel, ignition circuit control
Test conditions fulfilled
Error not present now, but already stored
Error would not cause a warning lamp to light up
Diagnostic active
Cycle flag set
Error code: 2E 28 28 05 00 00 09 25 45 95 46 B9 F4 95 45 A6
40 C4 F4 92 45 D1 41 C1 FF 96
-------------------------------------------------------------
29CC CDKMD - misfire, several cylinder
Error counter: 1
Logistic counter: 73
Mileage 142984 km
Engine speed 2640.00 1/min
relative air charge 84.00 %
Engine temperature 96.75 Grad C
fuel level 1L / Ink. 81.00 l
Misfire with cylinder cut off
Test conditions fulfilled
Error not occurred yet
Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
Diagnostic active
Cycle flag set
Error code: 29 CC 81 05 00 00 01 49 45 D1 42 70 C1 51 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
-------------------------------------------------------------
29D1 CDKMD01 - misfire, cylinder 5
Error counter: 1
Logistic counter: 73
Mileage 142984 km
Engine speed 2640.00 1/min
relative air charge 84.00 %
Engine temperature 96.75 Grad C
fuel level 1L / Ink. 81.00 l
Misfire with cylinder cut off
Test conditions fulfilled
Error not occurred yet
Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
Diagnostic active
Cycle flag set
Error code: 29 D1 81 05 00 00 01 49 45 D1 42 70 C1 51 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
-------------------------------------------------------------
2F08 CDKTAE - intake air temperature sensor, signal
Error counter: 1
Logistic counter: 38
Mileage 143048 km
Engine speed 680.00 1/min
Engine temperature 100.50 Grad C
Ambient temperature 30.00 Grad C
ADC- Voltage intake air temperature 4.98 V
Short circuit after plus
Test conditions fulfilled
Error not occurred yet
Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
Diagnostic active
Cycle flag set
Error code: 2F 08 82 05 00 00 01 26 45 D9 11 C6 68 FF 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
-------------------------------------------------------------
2D0F CDKHFME - airflow sensor, signal
Error counter: 2
Logistic counter: 38

1. Umweltsatz
Mileage 143048 km
Engine speed 680.00 1/min
Intake air temperature 39.75 Grad C
throttle valve angle based on the lower block 5.10 %DK
ADC- Voltage air mass 0.00 V

2. Umweltsatz
Mileage 143048 km
Engine speed 560.00 1/min
Intake air temperature 18.75 Grad C
throttle valve angle based on the lower block 4.31 %DK
ADC- Voltage air mass 0.00 V
Signal below threshold, shortcut to Minus or line interruption
Test conditions fulfilled
Error not occurred yet
Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
Diagnostic active
Cycle flag set
Error code: 2D 0F 82 05 00 00 02 26 45 D9 11 75 0D 00 45 D9
0E 59 0B 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

================================================== ===========

TerminatorX5 · #5 05-15-2013, 08:33 AM

Further update:

Digging deeper into the issue, I have connected the INPA (INPA can work on Windows VISTA!!!) and was watching the live data stream as I drove the car.

INPA has so many things available, like "delete", "reset" that I did not touch, as I have no idea what I'd be deleting or resetting, so I resorted to monitoring part only, and resetting only the error codes after saving the data in PDF file for later studying...

Analogue Value 2 shows engine roughness per each cylinder, while the engine is idling - when you open throttle to move the car, the values freeze at "zero" mark, as soon as you let gas pedal go, the data starts streaming...

Anyways, in this live data i have noticed that 7 cylinders were just being "alive", with their bars moving just a bit left and right, but the cylinder #5 was more enthusiastic in its movement - I have heard engine's "heartbeat" a little off and those "misbeats" would coincide with the bar graph for the cylinder #5. So, I think that the coil for cylinder 5 is probably grounding and the #5 is misfiring, as was indicated by the previous data dumps.
It seems that the problems are intertwined, the CCV membrane was torn and was leaking oil back into the engine, the blue smoke on extended idle indicates oil in the engine, and probably, same oil has entered the spark plug chamber and fouled the insulation of the coil which frailed and now is shorting, or the oil is acting as a conductor and is allowing the coil to arc to ground... this is just a theory, just a speculation...

an oil change was done (my first oil change, whooo hooo!!! spilled a little on the ground, but did it nevertheless!!) - I flushed the oil with Liqui Moly Engine flush, let it idle for about 11-12 minutes, dumped oil, put in 8 qt of fresh Castrol full synthetic 5W40, and added two bottles of Auto-RX, (2x 12 fl.oz=24 fl.oz), at 88920 miles. I still see smoke on extended idle, but I am monitoring this issue too...

A question to the engine gurus - where is the cylinder #5? As I am looking onto the the engine, facing the car from the front of the vehicle? the torn CCV membrane was to my left, which is the passenger side (LHD vehicle) of the car. Is cylinder 5 on that side?

a replacement Bosch coil is ordered and is in transit.

The MAF problem is not completely ruled out as of yet - upon cold start-up the engine starts out at 900 RPMs, then moves to 700 RPMs before settling to 600 RPMs which is the setpoint for idling without AC on, or other electrical consumers... during the cold start up, the engine revs up on its own to 1200-1500 RPMS, real fast, then settles back down to idle speed. the behaviour is similiar when the MAF is just disconnected - the engine revs up without the MAF and then settles down... So, the speculation is, that the MAF connection might be faulty, or the MAF itself is on the brink of failure... still, a little bit more of monitoring needed, as the engine without MAF revs up and then idles slightly at higher RPMS, then 600, but when it revs up on its own, it falls back to regualr 600 RPMs... More studying is being done...

more to the air management - a K&N filter has arrived. I have installed the filter (at 88980 miles), and have noticed that the "misfire" condition of the cylinder #5 has reduced, and the engine idles a bit better (still revs up on its own from cold start), and the car pulls a little better. Not sure how to read this behaviour yet, more monitoring to come...

bcredliner · #6 05-15-2013, 11:01 AM

cylinders facing fron the front are 1-2-3-4 on the left and 5-6-7-8 on the drivers side side. That assumes you have left hand drive. The problem you are having is very unlikely that it has anything to do with MAF as disconnecting it made little difference. Did you check the plug and plug wire on no. 5 cyl? I don't use an INPS as I am all Apple but it sounds like coil is firing. What do the instructions say about the readout you are getting? Could also be the throttle body or the idle control.

Doru · #7 06-19-2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

cylinders facing fron the front are 1-2-3-4 on the left and 5-6-7-8 on the drivers side side. That assumes you have left hand drive. The problem you are having is very unlikely that it has anything to do with MAF as disconnecting it made little difference. Did you check the plug and plug wire on no. 5 cyl? I don't use an INPS as I am all Apple but it sounds like coil is firing. What do the instructions say about the readout you are getting? Could also be the throttle body or the idle control.

I just thought to add the firing order as well:

V8 M62, M62TU, N62

Firing order...
1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2

4-------------8
3-------------7
2-------------6
1-------------5
Front of engine

bcredliner · #8 05-15-2013, 11:06 AM

If oil was getting into the engine it could easily be a fouled plug. If there was or still is oil in the spark plug well a likely cause is the wire is grounding out to the engine.

bcredliner · #9 05-15-2013, 11:11 AM

To eliminate the MAF, run test with the MAF disconnected or remove the MAF and clean it with and only with MAF cleaner. It may not eliminate the problem if the MAF is bad but it will likely reduce you problem.

TerminatorX5 · #10 05-15-2013, 11:44 AM

thanks redliner...

it seems that there are several problems, that could be interconnected... the MAF operates, as when i disconnected it, the engine's speed surged, it stuttered a moment, and than it caught itself and kept on running (on the preset table of values, not the MAF supplied values, as the MAF was disconnected). this confirms that the MAF is working but does not rule out that the MAF might have an intermittent fault. the system registers the absence of the MAF, just as it is supposed to. I have cleaned out the MAF using the CRC MAF cleaner, but, from what i have heard on the grapevine, if the MAF is dying, the cleaning will only prolong the agony... I have located a Bosch MAF in Germany that I can get once it is deemed that my MAF is gone south...

from the cylinder numbering (thank you for the post) it seems that the CCV membrane was perforated on the side of cylinder #1, the passenger side of the car (mine is LHD), the one on the driver's side was intact, but the cylinder #5 is on the driver's side... it does not go with the initial theory that I had about the perforated CCV membrane and the misfiring #5 being in relation to each other.. it still does not rule out that the #5 is shorting out because of possible oil contamination of the spark plug cavity... Once the new coil arrives, I will venture into the engine bay again to replace the coil, evaluate the oil presense in the cavity and to clean up the throttle valve...

are there any special considerations for the throttle body cleaning? do I need to remove the valve throttle body from the engine and clean it off the car? in that case, I will need to get myself a gasket to be prepared for reinstall... if the throttle body can stay in place during cleaning, should i follow any special procedure for cleaning? I will be searching the forums for the info but if anyone knows the answers or has the links, it is much easier...

Thanks guys...