All in - pulling the 4.6 engine and trans to fix oil leaks once and for all

[SlickGT1]

Originally Posted by RRPhil

We need to be careful not to tar with the same brush the 5HP24 and the 6HP26 transmissions here.

Certainly the 6-speed transmission has an increasing number of issues relating to the performance/durability of the Mechatronic unit EDS solenoids (particularly 3-4 shift problems)



Solenoid issues are, on the other hand, very rare for the 5HP24. They certainly don’t need replacing as a matter of routine (assuming the transmission was performing fine before removal?)



Phil

Right, I forgot I have the 6 speed. Yea my solenoids caused me some grief, but wasn't too bad of an expense. My reverse got screwed up bad when hot. I also have a feeling that I caused this when I dropped the filter and changed the fluid. I kept it at Lifeguard ZF6, I found that pink gasket material from the filter all over the solenoids. When I removed the filter first time, it was stuck in there quite horrifically. The seal on it tore, and most of it stayed up in the hole. I thought I cleaned most if it out, but It seems while I was tearing into it, I must have sent a bunch into the trans. But I did have that 2-1 lurch prior to all this. I haven't noticed in in recent memory at all.

[SlickGT1]

Originally Posted by stunt

Yeah, that looks like it would be bulletproof! But pricey.

I spoke to Eriksson again about cost of various parts that I need and here's the list w/ part numbers. Hopefully I won't need everything, but I'll know more after I tear the tranny down.



Most of this is what Phil already suggested and he already knew the needle roller bearing part number before I complete that sentence, lol.

He also recommended getting the F piston. This has a molded rubber surround and they often find they have to replace it.

He said to inspect the main pressure regulator bore in the valve body. Often a groove will be worn in it as a result of spending a lot of time cruising at the same speed (rpm), typically 2200 rpm. What will happen is when accelerating from that cruise and a downshift occurs, the pressure regulator piston will get stuck in the grove, and rather than maintain an oil pressure of about 200 psi, it will rise to 550 psi by 3000 rpm, which is not good for the transmission.

If there is a groove, Option 1 would be to replace the valve body at a cost of about $260, or the bore can be reamed out and a slightly larger main pressure valve piston can be fitted. The cost of the 2nd option is $125.

He also said to check that there is no crack in the valve body where the part number is stamped in it. If that is the case, that kind of dictates which option to take with the above mentioned issue.

Finally, on the 3 tools to release the clutch springs, I got a quote from a local metal fabrication shop. They would waterjet cut the 3 "rings" out of 1/2" steel and then use 1/2" round steel for the uprights and 1/2" by 3/4" for the cross member portion of the handles.

Cost would be $120 per tool ($360 total) and $5 extra per tool to have them powder coated black medium texture. I asked Eriksson about the cost of those tools from ZF and he laughed and said the cost would be much higher.

I'm wondering if there would be interest in having a small run of these tools made as the price would go down quite a bit since almost all the cost is in setup/labor, not the material cost (the 3 rings would all be concentrically cut from a single 1/2 stock).

I wish I could do metal work myself and make something up. I did pick up a shop press, so I just need some means of pressing those clutches down.



Once I get the assemblies out of the transmission, maybe I'll be able to figure out a way to get the clips out without those custom made tools?

Go to home depot with your measurements. Buy 2' sections of the appropriate PVC pipe. You may need to use adapters and such. Glue it up, and cut out the centers of them to access the parts once pressed. I have seen this before on your transmission, on this forum.

[Ricky Bobby]

I applaud your multicultural beer selection, as well as the late 70's Honda m'cycle.

[stunt]

Originally Posted by SlickGT1

Go to home depot with your measurements. Buy 2' sections of the appropriate PVC pipe. You may need to use adapters and such. Glue it up, and cut out the centers of them to access the parts once pressed. I have seen this before on your transmission, on this forum.

Great idea!

Let's see:



Looks like Schedule 80 PVC will get me the closest, but Schedule 40 might work as well. I'll play with it once I get the assemblies out to see what I can come up with. Yeah, $360 for a set of tools I'll likely never need to use again (hopefully!) does not make much sense. If they could have done the set of tools for under $100 I would have probably gone for it, but not at the price they quoted me.

[stunt]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

I applaud your multicultural beer selection, as well as the late 70's Honda m'cycle.

Lol thanks! I'm from Denmark. I suppose I should add some Carlsberg and Tuborg in the mix.

That's a 1970 CB450, first year with disc brakes up front.

[Ricky Bobby]

Originally Posted by stunt

Lol thanks! I'm from Denmark. I suppose I should add some Carlsberg and Tuborg in the mix.

That's a 1970 CB450, first year with disc brakes up front.

Yes you should, and I believe I shall call you Beowulf and you shall call this project "Slaying Grendel's mother" LMAO

I knew it was 70's CB but wasn't sure if early or late, but damn that beauty looks great for 44 years old! I hope my Triumph runs for that long,

Looking forward to more updates, are you born in Denmark/emigrated here or are you first generation? My father is born Czech citizen so I am first generation born here.

[SlickGT1]

Originally Posted by stunt

Great idea!

Let's see:



Looks like Schedule 80 PVC will get me the closest, but Schedule 40 might work as well. I'll play with it once I get the assemblies out to see what I can come up with. Yeah, $360 for a set of tools I'll likely never need to use again (hopefully!) does not make much sense. If they could have done the set of tools for under $100 I would have probably gone for it, but not at the price they quoted me.

Right, don't forget, you have couplers and adapters you can glue onto the pipes. That is why I am suggesting to go to a supply and pick whatever will work. From that point on, you just glue the adapter or coupler to a long section, and cut out the appropriate window to get the parts apart when you compress the ring. Plus PVC is stupid tough in that direction.

[stunt]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

are you born in Denmark/emigrated here or are you first generation? My father is born Czech citizen so I am first generation born here.

Born in Denmark. Moved here in 1982 at age 16 with my family (my dad's work took us here). Lived here every since and have no intentions of going back except to visit family. Those first few months in high school were a bit rough, but it was all good after that.

[RRPhil]

Originally Posted by stunt

Yeah, that looks like it would be bulletproof! But pricey.

I spoke to Eriksson again about cost of various parts that I need and here's the list w/ part numbers. Hopefully I won't need everything, but I'll know more after I tear the tranny down.



Most of this is what Phil already suggested and he already knew the needle roller bearing part number before I complete that sentence, lol.

He also recommended getting the F piston. This has a molded rubber surround and they often find they have to replace it.

He said to inspect the main pressure regulator bore in the valve body. Often a groove will be worn in it as a result of spending a lot of time cruising at the same speed (rpm), typically 2200 rpm. What will happen is when accelerating from that cruise and a downshift occurs, the pressure regulator piston will get stuck in the grove, and rather than maintain an oil pressure of about 200 psi, it will rise to 550 psi by 3000 rpm, which is not good for the transmission.

If there is a groove, Option 1 would be to replace the valve body at a cost of about $260, or the bore can be reamed out and a slightly larger main pressure valve piston can be fitted. The cost of the 2nd option is $125.

He also said to check that there is no crack in the valve body where the part number is stamped in it. If that is the case, that kind of dictates which option to take with the above mentioned issue.

Finally, on the 3 tools to release the clutch springs, I got a quote from a local metal fabrication shop. They would waterjet cut the 3 "rings" out of 1/2" steel and then use 1/2" round steel for the uprights and 1/2" by 3/4" for the cross member portion of the handles.

Cost would be $120 per tool ($360 total) and $5 extra per tool to have them powder coated black medium texture. I asked Eriksson about the cost of those tools from ZF and he laughed and said the cost would be much higher.

I'm wondering if there would be interest in having a small run of these tools made as the price would go down quite a bit since almost all the cost is in setup/labor, not the material cost (the 3 rings would all be concentrically cut from a single 1/2 stock).

I wish I could do metal work myself and make something up. I did pick up a shop press, so I just need some means of pressing those clutches down.

Once I get the assemblies out of the transmission, maybe I'll be able to figure out a way to get the clips out without those custom made tools?

Certainly no harm in replacing the F-brake piston, though I would say that a post ’01 transmission like yours is unlikely to suffer from this problem, generally seen on early models, which caused the transmission to lose reverse gear through leakage



On all of the later-model transmissions that I’m rebuilding at the moment the pistons are all in perfect condition




Similarly with the upper valve block crack. A relatively common issue on early 5HP24s :



which caused the transmission to drop out of 1st gear into neutral, when sat ticking over when warm, due to leakage between shift valve 1 and the clutch valve



I only ever see this issue on early Jaguars etc. so I’d be surprised if your 034 model was suffering from this. Just in case, though, it’s worth mentioning that the upper valve block in your 034 has different KV-B & KV-E spools to all the other models of the 5HP24 so the upper valve block is identified by the numbers ‘075’ stamped on to it (i.e. the last three digits of its part number)




Your transmission will also have the later 10mm land width main pressure valve spool but it is still worth checking the valve body for wear. The only satisfactory way I’ve found of doing this though is through vacuum testing (I use a pump designed to evacuate air conditioning systems)



This is the Sonnax oversized valve that they mentioned :




Clearly the torque converter will come back empty of fluid so you’ll need most of your 12 litres of fluid. The 034 model in the 4.6iS has a 0.88 litre higher fluid capacity than the 029 model for the 4.4i due to the larger torque converter.

Phil

[Freestyler]

Originally Posted by stunt

Born in Denmark. Moved here in 1982 at age 16 with my family

As if this thread wasn't awesome enough already.

Greetings from Denmark.