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  #21  
Old 05-11-2015, 11:49 AM
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Either way we analyze the situation, the OP is in a very difficult position.
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  #22  
Old 05-11-2015, 01:42 PM
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The OP will need to have a mechanic look at it that is impartial in the matter. That will cost money. A lawsuit will cost money. All while he has a vehicle that cannot be driven and the dealers know this. If the oil filter was truly at fault both dealers will seek to get the case dismissed against them as it was the oil filter manufacturer at fault. Do they even have a presence in the US? If not, any suit will not go far at all. Maybe something could be brought against the distributor. We also don't know what the OP signed. It may require binding arbitration to be used or that he bought the vehicle AS IS and the dealer accepts no responsibility whatsoever.

It will be a very hard case to prove and could take 1 or more years. If he doesn't fix the vehicle they could argue that since he hasn't actually paid anything, he is not able to collect on damages that don't exist.
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  #23  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
The OP will need to have a mechanic look at it that is impartial in the matter. That will cost money. A lawsuit will cost money. All while he has a vehicle that cannot be driven and the dealers know this. If the oil filter was truly at fault both dealers will seek to get the case dismissed against them as it was the oil filter manufacturer at fault. Do they even have a presence in the US? If not, any suit will not go far at all. Maybe something could be brought against the distributor. We also don't know what the OP signed. It may require binding arbitration to be used or that he bought the vehicle AS IS and the dealer accepts no responsibility whatsoever.

It will be a very hard case to prove and could take 1 or more years. If he doesn't fix the vehicle they could argue that since he hasn't actually paid anything, he is not able to collect on damages that don't exist.
You are probably correct, it will be difficult to begin a 3rd party suit especially if the manufacturer is not in the mainland U.S. Also, because no bodily harm was of result, I think that a lawsuit will be an expensive bust...Just my own opinion...doesn't mean that it is not possible...
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  #24  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trader4 View Post
I agree with most of your points, except the last. There is no requirement
that one actually fix anything in order to collect damages.
Actually there is. You need to prove the damages that you suffered. If you didn't pay anything, then you suffered nothing. If the contract the OP signed said the dealer isn't responsible for loss of use of the vehicle. Then he has a vehicle he cannot drive unless he pays to repair it. A court *may* accept multiple quotes for the repairs but the OP may need three or so. Of which, he had to pay three people to review how much it would cost to repair. That also means three tows to the three places.
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  #25  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:39 PM
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Your insurance would pay out or don't your realize that? The person driving should also have insurance. So no, you couldn't sue for the cost to rebuild the house, as that is why you have insurance. You could claim the deductible you paid though.

Have you ever sued anyone? Have you ever been in a court besides for a traffic ticket?

Will it cost $27k though? If a used engine can be found for much cheaper, then no, it won't cost $27k. That price was for a remanufactured engine from BMW. The BM dealer and the BMW dealer could easily argue that the OP is not entitled to a rebuilt engine. If you are driving and go into water that was deeper than you expected and the engine gets trashed, your insurance company can put a used motor in your vehicle if they want. have 70k miles on it, they can find one that has that or less. The OP shouldn't try to go the remanufactured route as a court could say no to that damage claim.
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  #26  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:58 PM
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I think the thing to pursue is the oil filter.

Don't bother going after the manufacturer of it. If it looks old, they will say it was due for replacement. Not their problem. And whatever the part number and name is on it, it may be a counterfeit part.

The Mercedes dealer was asked to do a service. Apparently they changed the oil. We don't know if they changed the filter. Look for that part number on the work order. Maybe they didn't have one and skipped it. Bad practice, but possible.

If they didn't change it, I would suggest going after them for skipping it. If they did change it, it should be on the work order.

A third opinion from a mechanic that hasn't got a stake in the quality of work done to date would be worthwhile. Even if you don't move the vehicle, you can hire a mechanic and take him with you to see the vehicle and listen to what the BMW dealer says.

Used cars. Unfortunate, but not the first time. I would look for a used engine for $5000 or so.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2015, 04:13 PM
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I would prefer not to take the case to trial, simply because it will take a lot of extra time and money.

I think I will probably follow a BBB complaint with both MB and BMW.

An independent mechanic has already given me information that a few of the codes were indicative of an engine failure. I will be posting the list of codes online tonight. I will also try to get what BMW said in writing when I file the complaint against MB. I unfortunately do not have the code for the check engine light when I brought the car back to BMW because they cleared the code without keeping a record of it.

I like the idea of filing two separate small claims. Is there any more information on this?

BMW did state that the oil filer could have caused the engine failure, but I do not yet have that in writing. Also the BMW mechanic told me that the oil filters do indeed have a re-circulation valve.

Unfortunately on the warranty it does say that the car was purchased "as is"

However, it also says that MB disclosed any known problems with the car and that they did a complete oil change, inspection and service. I will try to find out more details about what that service entailed.

As of right now BMW has offered to pony up $1000 dollars, assuming I let them fix the car. Obviously this wont save me much but at least it is progress.

Once I figure out more about the oil filter I will post that information as well. BMW is not answering my calls at the moment.

Thanks for the additional insights guys.

Anyone know of any good independent BMW mechanics in WI or Norther IL?
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2015, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce330 View Post
Yes, that is what I was thinking as well...someone quoted CPO earlier and I was like, no, it is just a used X...I may have misread somewhere, if that is the case, then I apologize...
There is no additional warranty on the car. The only warranty expired two weeks ago. The car was diagnosed with the engine failure a week late.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2015, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader4 View Post
Why are you now obfuscating by dragging insurance in? Let's say
I have no insurance on the house or the insurance lapsed. Let's
say the person who wrecks the house has no insurance on their
car either. It's simple. They drive their car into my house causing
damage. I have no obligation to rebuild the house in
order to have a valid legal claim against the party that ran into my
house. My damages are real and provable. And if the legal system
worked like you claimed it work, people like the poster or the owner
of the house here, would be screwed. You'd insist that I rebuild the
house before I could win a lawsuit? How about I don't have the
$100K sitting around to spend on the chance that I later *might*
win and collect? Now what? No lawsuit, just get lost?

This argument:

"If you didn't pay anything, then you suffered nothing"

is totally bogus. In some cases, it may not even be possible for
me to pay something to get it fixed. Let's say you came into my
house to do some
work and you negligently let a ladder fall, it hit a piece of art
and severely damaged it. It's one of a kind, I can't, replace it.
An art expert says there is no way to fix it. So, now what?
I can't collect? That would be some fine mess. In reality, all
that matters is what the value of it was before and what the
value of it is now. That is what my damages are, that is what
a court works with. What I do with the money I collect, is up
to me.

And further, now you want to argue over whether it's $27K?
Who cares. I used that number because it was about
what the poster said BMW quoted. Obviously there are a range
of options. But it does raise another good point as to the
inherent nonsense of your argument. In your world, you are
claiming that the poster has to get it fixed before he knows
how much he will possibly collect. He could get $5K, $10K, $27K,
or nothing at all. If he were required to FIX it and spend the
money without knowing if he could ever collect at all, just
so he can file a suit, it would be one screwed up legal system.
Fortunately the way it works, you can file the suit, see if
you collect, and
then based on what you receive, decide what you want to do.
That is assuming you don't need the vehicle in the meantime.
If the person didn't have insurance and you didn't, what happens if they have no money? Sure you could win in court, but you aren't going to collect anything. Who in the end loses? You were at fault and so were they; for not having insurance. There are many times people win a court case but yet never collect as they are just going to have to keep going to court in the hopes that they can collect.

Next, how do you file a lawsuit for a $25k remanufactured engine when the vehicle isn't even worth that? The OP cannot go for a remanufactured engine.

Quote:
In reality, all
that matters is what the value of it was before and what the
value of it is now.
So you are saying the vehicle is now worth a negative $6k? $21k - $27k = -$6k. All he could hope to go for was a used engine to be installed. The Op would need several quotes all detailed exactly what failed for a court to consider it. It is the plaintiff that needs to prove the damages; far easier to prove when you have paid it. Anyone can get a "quote" that shows a high amount. The MB dealer could also request to see the vehicle and could come up with part A failed and it will cost $100 and another $300 for labor. Will the engine ever be the same? Probably not, but it gets the MB dealer into paying far less. If the OP got three quotes and then did the work, the MB dealer would have a much harder case to prove that the work wasn't required. The judge is the one that needs to make the determination of what was actually required.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2015, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emden View Post
I would prefer not to take the case to trial, simply because it will take a lot of extra time and money.

I think I will probably follow a BBB complaint with both MB and BMW.

An independent mechanic has already given me information that a few of the codes were indicative of an engine failure. I will be posting the list of codes online tonight. I will also try to get what BMW said in writing when I file the complaint against MB. I unfortunately do not have the code for the check engine light when I brought the car back to BMW because they cleared the code without keeping a record of it.

I like the idea of filing two separate small claims. Is there any more information on this?

BMW did state that the oil filer could have caused the engine failure, but I do not yet have that in writing. Also the BMW mechanic told me that the oil filters do indeed have a re-circulation valve.

Unfortunately on the warranty it does say that the car was purchased "as is"

However, it also says that MB disclosed any known problems with the car and that they did a complete oil change, inspection and service. I will try to find out more details about what that service entailed.

As of right now BMW has offered to pony up $1000 dollars, assuming I let them fix the car. Obviously this wont save me much but at least it is progress.

Once I figure out more about the oil filter I will post that information as well. BMW is not answering my calls at the moment.

Thanks for the additional insights guys.

Anyone know of any good independent BMW mechanics in WI or Norther IL?
Don't waste your time with the BBB, it is a corrupt organization. If both of the dealers are paying members, the BBB will allow it to be swept under the rug. The BBB has no power to do anything anyway.
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