Help! 2008 BMW x5 4.8 Engine Failure

[JCL]

Originally Posted by trader4

The theory that metal *might* have been present two months and 2K miles earlier is purely and highly speculative. We don't even know what specific failure the metal is from. Some failures are gradual
and might have produced metal for some time. Or the metal could be from one that was more sudden. But to prevail on that, he's have to prove that they didn't change the filter *and* that metal would have been present. Good luck with either of those. Without MB admitting they didn't change it, he has virtually nothing that shows they didn't, except for BMW saying they think it "looked old" and "cheap aftermarket". It was Hengst. Did you think it looked old?

Agreed it is a long shot, that was what I said. But it is an opportunity to try and determine if there were any symptoms earlier on. And the dealer involved is the one that made a profit selling the vehicle (and, presumably, the warranty).

I think I said I didn't think anything looked wrong with the filter.

Originally Posted by trader4

"Two weeks later on the way into work I suddenly lose power and the car goes into limp mode the idrive says ENGINE MALFUNCTION, AWD MALFUNCTION, DSC MALFUNCTION, BRAKE MALFUNCTION. I pull over to the side of the road and turn the car off. I then turn the car back on and it runs perfectly. It runs just fine for the next week, then does the same thing again but this time dies in the middle of traffic. "

That sounds very much like the same, continuing problem.

What is your diagnosis for the AWD/DSC/Brake malfunction? Perhaps a low voltage that caused all of the warnings to light up?

Originally Posted by trader4

And even failing that, without regard to the warranty, it's almost certain that the problem already existed when he took it back to BMW the last time for repair, and again when he returned with the CEL on just 1 mile later. BTW, you didn't answer the question:

Agreed, the problem was likely there the last time he went in to the dealer. But that doesn't matter for the claim against the BMW dealer, because it was already out of warranty.

The point on the CEL and other codes is that without them, everything is a guess. For you to suggest that someone else's ideas are highly speculative is strange, when the whole web diagnosis is highly speculative.

I don't think we need the personal attacks. It is just as correct to say that some people think the world (or perhaps just any of the three parties involved in declining an out of warranty claim) owes them something.

[BorisKV]

Originally Posted by Emden

What I want to know is what the mileage means, because the numbers under it are the wrong miles for my car.

Do you have approximately 74649 miles on your odometer (you stated that you have around 70K in the first post)? For whatever strange reasons ISTA/D outputs millage in kilometers. Don't know what 524280K mileage means though. Some of the codes you have (VTG, Steering Angle, DSC) have been the same for my 2008 X5 4.8i when battery was going bad (disappeared after the new battery was installed and programmed). Some of the other codes looks like there was an issue with power supply (see SINE - alarm, voltage supply tampering). When battery starts going bad, you can see quite a variety of weird codes (errors) popping up in this car. How old is the battery? Clearly it doesn't explain grinding noise but if you power supply is bad, only BMW gods know what can go bad with this car considering amount of gizmos and electrical current driven devices and one of the codes you have is for Valvetronic. Just curious, did you seek a second opinion?

[BMWjason]

OMG, the oil filter looks crushed! Iv'e seen a similar issue when a quick lube added Gear Oil to an engine. Long story short, the engine bearings were destroyed.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by trader4

How do you know that BMW was competent in their diagnosis of
the problem? According to Emden, BMW told him that the tires
were ruined in his very limited amount of driving by MB having rotated
them. He says he came back with a CEL on, they reset it, told
him it was nothing, sent him on his way again. He says they told
him that the oil filter looked old, it was a "cheap aftermarket" one.
It's Hengst. That doesn't sound particularly competent to me.
In a case like this, you proceed against everyone that you could
make a case against and in my book, the BMW dealer is at the top
of that list.

I agree there is a good chance the vehicle had the problem before
it was sold/traded in. Can the BMW dealer see what work was
done on it, if it was taken to another BMW dealer just prior to
being sold by the previous owner? If by some miracle he could
find a service ticket somewhere that shows it was diagnosed and
the owner knew this car was about to blow up, that would be a
whole new angle.

Was the MB dealer competent? Was the OP competent? Are you competent? is anyone competent that has posted in this thread?

Given that you don't even know that a BMW dealer can see information about the car...yes, the dealer has access to information that could show if the previous owner knew there was an issue. The BMW dealer does not need to release that information and BMW NA has strict "policies" on that information. The previous owner could have used an independent shop to get it services outside of the warranty and that would not show in any service record.

I also disagree with the whole new angle bit. The OP bought a used vehicle and many states, a used car is sold AS IS. In most states the lemon law does not apply on used vehicles. There are some exceptions though and a used vehicle that comes with a warranty might be able to use the lemon law. The OP did say it was in the shop quite a bit. Was it 30 days of that 60-day period? If so, I'd probably push to try to get it covered under the lemon law. Once again though, an attorney will be required as this is a used vehicle and the law might make it quite clear that warranty or not, it was a used a vehicle and cannot be claimed under the lemon law.

[Emden]

One of the codes that came up at the BMW dealer when it was brought in with the failed engine was the DME: Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor2: guide and reference.

I did some digging and discovered that the valvetronic sensors have a tendancy to malfunction. These sensors and motors control the valve system in the car, allowing the valve system to open up and let the car rev. I discovered that if this valve system were to malfunction it could throw off the engine timings and potentially cause serious mechanic damage to the engine internals.

Another code, that came up while driving away from the dealer was the limp home activation. I believe this is the code that the tech cleared without checking. Limp-home could be activated by a number of other serious issues, such as valve problems.

A code that came up when the car was brought in for the wiring harness AND when the car returned with the failed engine was the DME: differential-pressure sensor, intake manifold: plausibility.

I found out that this sensor figures out what the pressure is in the manifold and tells the valvetronic system to open up and relieve pressure. I also found that if this sensor malfunctions serious damage to the engine can occur if it isn't fixed. This sensor would also cause limp-home to be activated. I discovered on another forum that the valvetronic system can be locked down by the pressure sensor if it is malfunctioning. This pressure would then build up as the car warms up and would cause the engine to fail.

This seems to be pretty clear information that if BMW had been diagnosing my vehicle correctly that they might have been able to save my engine.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by Emden

One of the codes that came up at the BMW dealer when it was brought in with the failed engine was the DME: Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor2: guide and reference.

I did some digging and discovered that the valvetronic sensors have a tendancy to malfunction. These sensors and motors control the valve system in the car, allowing the valve system to open up and let the car rev. I discovered that if this valve system were to malfunction it could throw off the engine timings and potentially cause serious mechanic damage to the engine internals.

Another code, that came up while driving away from the dealer was the limp home activation. I believe this is the code that the tech cleared without checking. Limp-home could be activated by a number of other serious issues, such as valve problems.


A code that came up when the car was brought in for the wiring harness AND when the car returned with the failed engine was the DME: differential-pressure sensor, intake manifold: plausibility.

I found out that this sensor figures out what the pressure is in the manifold and tells the valvetronic system to open up and relieve pressure. I also found that if this sensor malfunctions serious damage to the engine can occur if it isn't fixed. This sensor would also cause limp-home to be activated. I discovered on another forum that the valvetronic system can be locked down by the pressure sensor if it is malfunctioning. This pressure would then build up as the car warms up and would cause the engine to fail.

This seems to be pretty clear information that if BMW had been diagnosing my vehicle correctly that they might have been able to save my engine.

Something I forgot to add. Both issues could supposedly cause desyncronisation of the engine!

[Emden]

Originally Posted by trader4

So, it sounds like it was having problems with the valvetronic system. But what we still don't know is whether that was due to a problem with that
system itself, or could it have been caused by something else, eg loose timing chain? As to the valvetronic system causing metal in the oil,
engine destruction, IDK. If it was just a sensor or similar that went,
for sure it could screw it up so that it would not run right, but I doubt
it could cause mechanical interference, metal to metal, etc. On the
other hand, if some mechanical part of the valvetronic was broken,
fell apart, etc, then I would think that could put metal into the oil, fail
the engine, etc. Or, as I said, it might also be something like the
timing chain that could have done it, but it would throw valvetronic
codes because the valve timing can't be properly controlled with a
chain flailing around, etc.

Just my 2 cents, speculative. What's the latest on where you're at
pursuing this?

Still gathering as much information as I possibly can. I think with what I have found out I am going to try going to the dealer in Madison one last time before I file the complaint with the BBB, the WI DOT, and BMW NA.

I have found that these things just require time and pressure.

Companies do not willingly throw away money.

[ard]

Originally Posted by Emden

.

This seems to be pretty clear information that if BMW had been diagnosing my vehicle correctly that they might have been able to save my engine.

Do keep in mind that "BMW" has NEVER worked on your car.

A separate corporation, bmw of whatever, did the work. This will complicate your theory of blame. Just keep it in mind.

[Ron07x5]

So sorry what a nightmare! I do not think I would have paid more for the engine than I paid for the car ... I would have stopped and consulted an attorney at that point. Wonder what actually caused the engine failure ... Guess I need to re read all the text here in case that might be guessed. I just bought a 4.8l x5 2007 from a private party it came with last 5 years of Bmw service records so I can see thankfully no fundamental engine or trams issues. Wonder what the service history of your car is .... Porsche will provide a cars service history that they have performed but not Bmw. Best of luck you deserve to win. Post what happens please

[Doug Huffman]

Originally Posted by Ron07x5

[ ... ] Porsche will provide a cars service history that they have performed but not Bmw. Best of luck you deserve to win. [ ... ]

Hmm. I have what purports to be my CPO BMW's service history, and it is quite plausible.