Help! 2008 BMW x5 4.8 Engine Failure

[Emden]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Don't waste your time with the BBB, it is a corrupt organization. If both of the dealers are paying members, the BBB will allow it to be swept under the rug. The BBB has no power to do anything anyway.

Why would you say that? I have gone through the BBB in the past and they have gotten results.

[lanbrown]

Because the BBB protects their members. How can they be impartial when the other party is a member? I have dealt with the BBB in the past and had to tell the BBB their policy. It has happened more than once and the other party was a BBB member. Think about it, why would they continue to be a BBB member if they had a poor rating? The BBB pays their bills because of those membership dues. Why would they bite the hand that feeds them?

You file a complaint agains the MB dealer and they are going to claim the vehicle had a 60-day warranty and it lapsed. You also bought a used vehicle that was sold AS IS and they are not responsible for any issues.

Just wait and see.

Also, did you check the BBB rating before you went to the dealer? Didn't think so. Does a BBB rating even matter? The only reason why some places like them as it gives fools a warm and fuzzy feeling.

[lanbrown]

Is the BBB a scam? Read here:
Better Business Bureau Scam | BBBScam

[lanbrown]

They also want proof and without they will just close it. Since they are a BBB Accredited business, that stacks the deck against the OP.

One downside, it just makes the MB dealer want to do even less for the OP.

In another BMW forum, someone had an issue and BMW knew of his thread and it appears that BMW was a lot less willing to do anything for him. The OP should be building his case and talk to an attorney (the first consultations is free) and see what an attorney says and what the attorney says regarding his case. He also needs to see if he can get any additional information from MB prior to making them mad. Once you make them mad, they won't provide anything unless required under law.

[ard]

OP. I would not discuss publicly and further.

Agree entirely with the post above this

[ard]

Originally Posted by trader4

That way you can still get the advice and opinions here.

Thats funny. Quite a few diatribes on nonsense here, but not much advice. Think of it as rubber neckers on the freeway after an accident-Schadenfreude at its worst for some posters.

OP already has identified himself to BMW, MB and others They dont need a dealer name. Only so many 2008 X5s with blown engines sold at a MB dealer and hassling now with BMW..IN MADISON WISCONSIN.

Duh.

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by trader4

.
Try to work out a deal where all 3 parties contribute to the cost.
I also told him that it's BS that a tire rotation caused the front tires
to fail and that it's BS that the computer only stores emission related
faults.

First of all, there's NO way a BMW dealer is going to put in anything but a new or rebuilt motor. Given $150hr plus the cost of the motor, this is likely to be a massive bill. The ONLY way this makes sense is if you are paying a third or less of the cost. To get these two dealers to chip in their thirds, will probably require an act of GOD. Or at least, a very sharp lawyer's involvement, (more money), and may take many months....if you can do it at all.

In my view of the situation, both dealers have got fairly reasonable outs. Keep in mind also that if the MB dealer had ANY CLUE if the car had some pre-existing motor issues, they would have never sold it off their lot; they would have sent it right off to Manheim as an as-is car. I think one must assume they genuinely thought the car was good to go.

For quite a bit LESS than one third of the cost, (~$7,000) you can have a used, low mileage motor installed, with a short warranty included. You will be driving again in about 3 days. If you're nervous about future failure, pay to get an aftermarket warranty once the car is back on the road, (probably will add about $3,500 to $5,000). Even if you just get a lower cost drivetrain-only warranty, that will cover the really massive risk.

To me, unless it's under warranty, paying the cost of a new motor, that exceeds the value of the car, makes NO sense on ANY BMW newer than 1974, (with the possible exception of a race car or a Z8). For a well used car with NO collector value, a used motor is fine.

Pay the $7k and be done. Chalk it up as a costly learning experience; had you had a proper PPI, this may have been avoided. But not even a PPI can always tell if you're about to spin a bearing, (you V10 M5 owners should beware!) Sometimes failures occur with NO prior warning or symptoms. Either you pay for an aftermarket warranty, or you take the risk. In life, one should NEVER self-insure unacceptable risks...that's what insurance is for. The richer you are, the more you can afford to self-insure.

BTW, I DO think a second opinion from a quality independent BMW shop should be the very next step. I have seen motors condemned when they are easily fixed. Not saying that's the case, but only an independent will install a used motor, so you may as well start the process with them.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by trader4

They worked on the car, he
picked it up, went one mile, the CEL came on, he returned. They
cleared the light, never told him what it was and sent him on his
way. Twenty miles later the engine is shot. That would seem to make
a pretty good case that when he returned with the CEL, there was something very wrong with the car, which they failed to correctly assess.

The check engine light could be any sensor out of range. Looks like the mechanical problem was there before the vehicle ever hit the BMW dealership.

If they failed to correctly diagnose the problem, and that was what they had agreed to do, then their liability cap would relate to the diagnosis fee they charged the owner. It doesn't make them liable for an engine failure, unless there is something that can be proven relating to actions they took (ie leaving the oil drain plug out).

I don't think there is any reasonable claim against the BMW dealer based on the info provided so far. Any successful claim against the Mercedes dealer would be based on them knowing of the problems in advance.

Buy a used engine, patch it up, and chalk it up to experience.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by trader4

Well the part relating to their actions would be if they misdiagnosed what was a fixable problem when the car was first brought in. And/or if they misdiagnosed what was a fixable problem when the car was
brought back with the CEL on after being picked up and driven one mile. And if that misdiagnosis resulted in what was fixable then becoming a catastrophic failure to the point of needing a new engine. It seems that could have happened. And if it did, then their liability is not limited to the charge for the bad diagnosis. They would most likely be responsible for the engine replacement. And from the facts given so far, I'd say he could have a reasonable claim for the above against the BMW dealer.

You may just be willing to chalk it up and pay for it. From what I've
heard so far, I would not be. From what he says, he has BMW saying that the oil filter looked old, was collapsed, and that it could have been the cause of the failure. MB claims they changed the filter. Why then, isn't MB potentially liable? Why is the filter old and collapsed if they just changed it? You'd just let MB off the hook, without even taking the filter to them and asking WTF? He's barely begun to pursue this, I see no need to just give up. I've heard other similar horror stories where eventually the customer got an acceptable solution.

It appears the vehicle came to the dealer with a pre-existing condition. The BMW dealer is not going to take responsibility for replacing the engine, IMO. And they certainly don't work in used parts.

The CEL is usually for emissions sensors, the service manager is correct about that. If there is a serious problem the vehicle goes into a limp mode to save itself. Checking the oil means checking the level. Checking the filter means checking if it is leaking. Anything more requires replacing it or opening it up. And you seem to think the filter is the cause; it could just as easily be the symptom of the engine making metal. My comments are based on my experience as a service manager (not with BMW). So yes, I would not pursue a claim against the BMW dealer, but I would take any customer goodwill settlement they offered.

I didn't see a mention of MB claiming they changed the filter, but maybe I missed it. I saw a mention of the OP requesting a service from them. Maybe they didn't have a filter in stock as it isn't their brand. Check the word order, look at the part number, don't presume. I didn't let the Mercedes dealer off the hook, I said that any claim for out of warranty service will be successful only if the OP can show that they knew of the problems when the sold the vehicle. I think that is unlikely. There could be a claim if the oil service (which would need to have been documented) was done incorrectly. All we have to go on there is a comment by the BMW dealer that it must be the other guy. That isn't proof of anything.

I don't understand going after the warranty company. Why would they have a responsibility?

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by trader4

How do you know for a fact that the BMW dealer involved won't put in
a used motor to solve a problem like this.

I'd be willing to bet money on that one.

I've owned BMWs for 43 years, and I've never, ever, heard of a BMW dealer installing a used motor. Or ANY used part for that matter. I doubt any other marques dealer would do so either, the liability is too much, and I'd bet their franchise rules prohibit this. I've seen BMW dealers install short blocks to MANY V8's, (an absolutely massive job), and do other engine rebuilds on site. When it comes to an engine replacement, they work at the pleasure of BMW NA. There can be "goodwill" repairs, but those don't happen for customers who bring in a problem used vehicle bought elsewhere.