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  #1  
Old 06-17-2019, 09:22 PM
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Dealer problem help! Valvetronic system.

Took the car in no check engine lights nothing for a water leak. They fixed some wires and called me to pick it up but now they tell me it has a check engine light on for the VALVETRONIC system which they tell me it costs in the thousands. How can i get them to return it to me the way i brought it in? should i get a lawyer involved? they refuse to fix it saying its a regular wear and tear item that happens.
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2019, 09:52 PM
ard ard is offline
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really? On the basis of that slim, slim post we are supposed to synthesize a solution???????????


Even the 'fixed some wires' part is utterly simplistic.



Unless you engage, question, understand (and take notes) you are bound to get screwed.




Lets start here: what is broken now? At least what do they say is broken? details. Specifics, error codes. If you dont have that, GET IT. Ask for it. demand it.


But whatever you do, do not let them repair it.
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2019, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
really? On the basis of that slim, slim post we are supposed to synthesize a solution???????????


Even the 'fixed some wires' part is utterly simplistic.



Unless you engage, question, understand (and take notes) you are bound to get screwed.




Lets start here: what is broken now? At least what do they say is broken? details. Specifics, error codes. If you dont have that, GET IT. Ask for it. demand it.


But whatever you do, do not let them repair it.
Took it in for a water leak that was throwing the CEL when it rained and went away as soon as it stopped raining. Tried to find the problem for months my self with no solution i changed every god damn trim and plastic piece that exist in the engine bay. They said they did a water test and said it “MIGHT” be the sunroof cassette but are not 100% sure wanting 3000+labor. They said they also found coroded wires in the trunk on a harness which cost about 180 to replace which i said do it. Now they replaced the wires and reset the ecu codes and it threw a CEL for the valvetronic shaft which they said it will be in the upwards of 5k. When i took the car in it had no CEL and it was in 100% working condition.
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2019, 02:01 AM
ard ard is offline
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what was the SPECIFIC codes associated with the first CEL? (This is the one where you took mnths anre replaced every trim piece in the engine bay)


What was this code/CEL?


Next, did you test the sunroof DRAINS???????? Not the 'cassette'. The drains. Anyone?


(This is a common failure on this model, with a TON of threads on 'sun roof drains'...that this is new to you means this dealer sucks.)



Whay SPECIFIC harness in the trunk for $180 did you replace? Part number should be on the work order.




Heres the thing. You seem to be not a detail guy. And when a corrupt dealer finds someone like this, it is an excuse to print money.



If you think somehow you will lawyer up and nail them on a technicality about 'car was working when I brought it in', and you cannot tell a coherent story about the nitty gritty details of what failed and what is being proposed, the dealer will run circles around you.




sorry....
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2019, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
what was the SPECIFIC codes associated with the first CEL? (This is the one where you took mnths anre replaced every trim piece in the engine bay)


What was this code/CEL?


Next, did you test the sunroof DRAINS???????? Not the 'cassette'. The drains. Anyone?


(This is a common failure on this model, with a TON of threads on 'sun roof drains'...that this is new to you means this dealer sucks.)



Whay SPECIFIC harness in the trunk for $180 did you replace? Part number should be on the work order.




Heres the thing. You seem to be not a detail guy. And when a corrupt dealer finds someone like this, it is an excuse to print money.



If you think somehow you will lawyer up and nail them on a technicality about 'car was working when I brought it in', and you cannot tell a coherent story about the nitty gritty details of what failed and what is being proposed, the dealer will run circles around you.




sorry....
Damn Im tired today but I guess I had to fetch the codes to explain it a little better.
The codes that showed up and went away after the rain were JBFF: C907, A737 then DME: 3BCE, 3396 then FZD: DE84
As soon as it would stop raining these would go away.

Drains were cleaned with weed wack wire and compressor, dealer confirmed all drain lines were clear at time of their water test, but they still said the cassette must be cracked which is bs because i taped up the sunroof before to test if this was the problem area and it wasn't.

For the harness they did not replace the whole harness but the corroded wires which they did show to me on the back of the fuse box. This is what is listed on the work order:
S1 3 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE CONNECTORS 61-13-8-353-746 36.30 * 0.0* T
S1 4 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE SHRINKING HOSE 61-13-1-379-833 56.20 * 0.0* T
S1 5 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE TIES 61-13-1-367-599 13.44 * 0.0* T
S1 6 MCH ADD'L LABOR OP WIRING REPAIR Existing 3.0*

And trust me Im a detail guy its just Iv had a long bad day and to top it off I go to pick up my car and some morons screwed up my car more then when i brought it in.
So im not running to the lawyer but im wanted to see if anyone else had the same experience where the dealer returns the car with a check engine light and it was brought in in perfect condition. I mean come on I bring it in with a water leak problem and they tell me the valvetronic system is going.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011x5 View Post
Damn Im tired today but I guess I had to fetch the codes to explain it a little better.
The codes that showed up and went away after the rain were JBFF: C907, A737 then DME: 3BCE, 3396 then FZD: DE84
As soon as it would stop raining these would go away.

Drains were cleaned with weed wack wire and compressor, dealer confirmed all drain lines were clear at time of their water test, but they still said the cassette must be cracked which is bs because i taped up the sunroof before to test if this was the problem area and it wasn't.

For the harness they did not replace the whole harness but the corroded wires which they did show to me on the back of the fuse box. This is what is listed on the work order:
S1 3 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE CONNECTORS 61-13-8-353-746 36.30 * 0.0* T
S1 4 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE SHRINKING HOSE 61-13-1-379-833 56.20 * 0.0* T
S1 5 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE TIES 61-13-1-367-599 13.44 * 0.0* T
S1 6 MCH ADD'L LABOR OP WIRING REPAIR Existing 3.0*

And trust me Im a detail guy its just Iv had a long bad day and to top it off I go to pick up my car and some morons screwed up my car more then when i brought it in.
So im not running to the lawyer but im wanted to see if anyone else had the same experience where the dealer returns the car with a check engine light and it was brought in in perfect condition. I mean come on I bring it in with a water leak problem and they tell me the valvetronic system is going.
I don't think it's fair quite yet to hold the dealer responsible for the unfortunate coincidence of your valvetronic starting to have issues while they were fixing something else for you.

It may very well end up being something they caused. But if you were having water ingress issues as bad as it sounds, then you could be chasing gremlins for a while now through no fault of the dealer.

In any sense, the new issue at hand is valvetronic, that sure as hell doesn't cost 5 grand to fix. From what I have read or heard about, there are dealers that will throw parts at that issue, and not the cheap ones first.

So back to the original issue at hand. It sounds like your water ingress problem has not been fixed? You said the sunroof drains were cleared, was this the front or rear drains? Hopefully both, but some guys will ignore the rear because they can't go from the top and just assume they can't do them. You have to get those drains from the rear with the tail gate open.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:32 AM
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If I was chasing this for months, I would be driving without headliner by now to see wtf is going on.

As far as valvetronic. It may not be dealer fault. They may have made the error come out with fixing whatever they did in the back. Or they reset the car to the point where you are not able to with whatever scanner you used.

I would open up those plastic computer and fuse boxes in the engine bay, and unplug every connector one by one to check for rust or bent pins.

I doubt the dealer did anything to break the valvetronic.
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011x5 View Post
Damn Im tired today but I guess I had to fetch the codes to explain it a little better.
The codes that showed up and went away after the rain were JBFF: C907, A737 then DME: 3BCE, 3396 then FZD: DE84
As soon as it would stop raining these would go away.

Drains were cleaned with weed wack wire and compressor, dealer confirmed all drain lines were clear at time of their water test, but they still said the cassette must be cracked which is bs because i taped up the sunroof before to test if this was the problem area and it wasn't.

For the harness they did not replace the whole harness but the corroded wires which they did show to me on the back of the fuse box. This is what is listed on the work order:
S1 3 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE CONNECTORS 61-13-8-353-746 36.30 * 0.0* T
S1 4 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE SHRINKING HOSE 61-13-1-379-833 56.20 * 0.0* T
S1 5 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE TIES 61-13-1-367-599 13.44 * 0.0* T
S1 6 MCH ADD'L LABOR OP WIRING REPAIR Existing 3.0*

And trust me Im a detail guy its just Iv had a long bad day and to top it off I go to pick up my car and some morons screwed up my car more then when i brought it in.
So im not running to the lawyer but im wanted to see if anyone else had the same experience where the dealer returns the car with a check engine light and it was brought in in perfect condition. I mean come on I bring it in with a water leak problem and they tell me the valvetronic system is going.

Can't comment about your specific technical issue / situation

What I can tell you is that I have taken my running (=NO CEL lights, NO Issues) car(s) to the dealer for recall work in two occasions and each time they "found" issues that were not there before, that just "appeared", threw CEL lights and they called me back with suggested "required" work ($$$).

In both cases, I declined the "required" work, took the car(s) out, troubleshooted the CEL (=CLEARED) with no issues afterwards.

I'm not implying bad intention, my perception in both cases was that they just did the recall work, connected the car / updated software and when the CEL light showed up, they just recommended work without troubleshooting what it was or if that was true issues (as that would have been "free" diagnostic).

Note the recall paperwork had indeed a disclaimer about this (e.g. any diagnostic will be charged).

Just my 5 cents.
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:31 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011x5 View Post
Damn Im tired today but I guess I had to fetch the codes to explain it a little better.
The codes that showed up and went away after the rain were JBFF: C907, A737 then DME: 3BCE, 3396 then FZD: DE84
As soon as it would stop raining these would go away.

Drains were cleaned with weed wack wire and compressor, dealer confirmed all drain lines were clear at time of their water test, but they still said the cassette must be cracked which is bs because i taped up the sunroof before to test if this was the problem area and it wasn't.

For the harness they did not replace the whole harness but the corroded wires which they did show to me on the back of the fuse box. This is what is listed on the work order:
S1 3 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE CONNECTORS 61-13-8-353-746 36.30 * 0.0* T
S1 4 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE SHRINKING HOSE 61-13-1-379-833 56.20 * 0.0* T
S1 5 MCH REMOVE/REPLACE CABLE TIES 61-13-1-367-599 13.44 * 0.0* T
S1 6 MCH ADD'L LABOR OP WIRING REPAIR Existing 3.0*

And trust me Im a detail guy its just Iv had a long bad day and to top it off I go to pick up my car and some morons screwed up my car more then when i brought it in.
So im not running to the lawyer but im wanted to see if anyone else had the same experience where the dealer returns the car with a check engine light and it was brought in in perfect condition. I mean come on I bring it in with a water leak problem and they tell me the valvetronic system is going.

There we go...





So, I assume you know that 'best practice' is to read codes and write them down..then reset and see what returns. But looking at the codes I concur they seem to be related to shorts, corrosion within comm lines. But replacing wires and connectors seems to be pissing away $. If water has gotten inside the modules, caused corrosion (and this is VERY common) relacing what they see outside wont help.


Have you looked at the IBS?



I would CAREFULLY look at all the modules in the trunk, consider opening modules if there is any evidence of water staining. Then replace if there is corrosion. (The salts that can come with corrosion can become conductive with high humidity, water- and THAT can cause intermittent errors. Linked to rain.


Finally, I have a theory around your 'total failure of the entire valvetronic system requiring $5000 replacement': They are idiots, liars or thieves. (Well, to be honest, they might be right- but thats low on my list)



If they were Fing with your car, the doors were open... This, combined with 'who knows what' on your busses due to corrosion, bad contacts, could lead to low power. When they went to start the car, the BMW voltage/load system gave the starter power, but failed to give enough voltage to the DME/contrls. ANd you got a spurious vlvetronic error.


They simply pulled the codes and quoted you the absolute worst case price, perhaps even knowing they had no real diagnosis.


(You didnt provide the current errors nor the testing they had t do to definitively give you a $5k price.....)


Finally. To answer your question...it is INCREDIBLY hard to get a dealer to admit to a error. In fact, a buddy took his combat pay from Iraw and bought an E60M5. His baby. Took it to the dealer for an oil change...tech took it for a 'test drive (aka joyride) and totaled it. It took Tommy 2 years to win a lawsuit for 150k. Lawyer took half, tommy got a new M5.


Dealers dont admit fault. And proving they are on the hook for a CEL in their possession is very hard. Very. You need a tech to sign a letter saying "i did it", and even then.....




Oh, one more finally- I would insist on a written document that states the CEL came on whe they had it; the codes they found; the diagnostic tests they performed (and if none, force them to say 'none', along with a written $5k estimate with itemized tasks. IIRC this is your legal right in California. Take 3 minutes and google CA BAR (bureau of auto repair) so you have a smidge of the lingo and rules, might get some attention. If nothing else, you are rubbing their noses in their own $hit.


Then clear the codes, charge the battery, maybe change the IBS (?) and drive it.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2019, 07:42 AM
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Check Battery

Those DME fault codes appear to be related to Terminal 15. I say check the battery and its connections, including IBS. Do the things you can; you may solve it on your own.

Then, reset the codes and see what comes back.
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