Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1182168)

FIFY

What I said was that if your mask, gloves and decontamination regiment is good enough to keep you safe while you interact with people at "approved" places, then why would you get butthurt about there being MORE places open to do business where you can continue to take the same precautions?

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Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1182173)

Actually it was due to...

1. Not wanting to write a tome the size of War and Peace.
2. Replying directly to the parts of your reply to mine (minus the extraneous things you added in your post)

I am truly sorry that you're worried about your employees NOT being paid, but hopefully the funds you are paying a construction crew will at least allow the construction crew to pay their bills at some (approved) open business.


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Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1182088)

I'm going to cover this little gem right here...

How in anyway does opening businesses put someone more at risk from another person's actions?

The answer is it doesn't!!

Example: If your happy ass has gone outside the house to buy food and other essentials since this started, then your risk will not be increased by going to more places (if YOU keep taking precautions)

As for the differences in deaths only suicides are different as that is a person doing something that WILL guarantee the end of their life.

A soldier a takes a higher RISK not a certain outcome. The real problem is that too many people are falsely equating more places = more risk and not understanding that if..... Precaution #1 works at the grocery store, then Precaution #1 will also work at some other business. No plan mentioned by anyone has said let's open everything and FORCE people to stand close together at a store and prohibit them from wearing PPE. If that was being said I'd fight that too, but what you're asking for is for others to suffer losing houses, jobs, family members to regular medical issues because you believe it somehow will make your mask and gloves better.

This is so easy.

If you're so worried about the virus.... Don't go outside.

Don't talk to anyone face to face.

Wear your PPE.

Don't do any work at an essential job due to increased risk [emoji849].

Do not touch cash.

Do not allow products into your safe space unless it's been sanitized.

And the most important thing is....

Enjoy PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and enjoy not putting the boots to another person's livelihood.[emoji106]

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Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1182137)

That's another issue, as mentioned. But is a political one. We have sheltered in place for 6 weeks which is what the medical experts have recommended.



I agree, and I think the past 6 weeks have given us time for that prep. San Antonio has issued citations for such violations. Mostly to businesses. But the mayor has said a few citations have been issued to private citizens as well. If the leaders of certain localities don't do their jobs, they should not be re-elected. I know Wal-Marts (or any grocery store) here won't even let you in the store without a face covering, I was just there today for the first time in over a month and could not believe the difference a month makes. EVERYONE had a mask and many had gloves. :thumbup:

Again, the car analogy applies. There will be certain members of the population who refuse to take any precautions. Think seat belts. Some people refuse to wear them. No amount of punitive action is going to change that. Focusing on those few individuals will not produce any policy that will change their behavior. Unless you are talking about killing them. But I doubt that.

I hope you are right and that you guys are at least flat lining. California is a huge state and I'd bet certain areas are going to do better than others. Texas' rural areas are barely feeling any effects at all, except for the economic ones.



Then you are only looking at it from one perspective. That of what is best, in a perfect world, from the guidance of the health care experts. If that were the case, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. We should all stay at home and live off our wealth. Government wouldn't have to hemorrhage money, under capitalized businesses both big and small would fail, and we could wait this thing out. We don't exist in that perfect world and many other factors have to be considered beyond what would save the most lives. I only mentioned the study because no matter the number, there is a correlation, between unemployment and added deaths. It was supporting my point (again no matter what number, unless your position is you doubt its validity at all and that there is no correlation) that we are trading one method of mortality for another. I was discussing honestly/earnestly enough to admit that the numbers of that study 37,000 have been looked at since then in other examinations who say the number is between 1500 and 37,000. I didn't use it as a "gotcha." I do remember it from "The Big Short" though I don't remember that line in Michael Lewis' book. Which is why I looked it up to see if I was passing bad information.



I have also heard all of that, and agree with them. But those are not the only issues as mentioned above. If you aren't able to place yourself in the position of others and, at least entertain, that the cure might be worse than the infection we have a different problem all together. Which is becoming pervasive in this country on both sides of the aisle. A lack of empathy and reason.

Ugh, that was flirting dangerously close to quoting Trump. But unlike many, I can admit when the other side might have the right idea. We have gone through pandemics before, but this is the first time a full lockdown has been utilized. We won't know what the 100% best course of action would have been, could have been, or should have been for many years. Which is why I emphasize might above.

Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1182180)

But apparently not so tiring that you keep posting away.[emoji849]

If you have ever been in something like the military then you would understand I may be sarcastic, but I am not all up in your grill like you seem to believe.

I have spent more than 20 years in places with collapsed economies (aka shit-holes) and not once did I see any local/national government do anything that helped, but in fact all the rules and regulations had done nothing but peel away the thin veneer that people call society usually leading to armed conflict. The places that got better were due to people not relying on a Mayor, General, President or Dictator and since I have personally bled for the ideals of the Constitution to have people espouse things that go against it is just like being spit upon.

Everyone has the Right to their opinion but no one should believe that there is a clause in the Constitution that suspends the Rights of the People in times of strife or that they should give up those Rights for a little safety or security for they deserve neither.

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Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1182167)

Here is some information coming out of Congress regarding a plan going forward. Much of it is what we were assuming was necessary a few posts up. But at least it's in writing and something that is moving forward.

https://problemsolverscaucus-gotthei...work-checklist

I got this in the email blast that goes out from Will Hurd who is our Congressional district representative. He's a Republican that I think does a pretty good job at being factual in his decision making. He was also on the panel that was questioning witnesses during the investigation into Trump's issues with the Ukraine. He almost lost his seat to a Democrat I went to school with whom I also respect. That was a tough vote.

^Anyway, the point of the above is to say no matter who you support, being on an elected official's email list can give valuable information. I'm on Cornyn's and Abbott's as well, but I have far less faith and support in them.









When you say things like the above, you call into question that last statement. Especially since we were unfortunate to have one member who DID have someone die very recently.

As for playing nice (again read your statements above)... I am one of the most patient and reasonable people you could meet. I'm sure OB and EOD are wondering why I am wasting my time replying to you at such length and fairly even tempered manner. I enjoy back and forth discussion with people of all beliefs, given they are willing to listen.