No, Moore's argument is that we need completely socialized medicine. The "things" I posted all point to several countries (Canada only being one of them) that are having serious problems with socialized medicine, and are looking for ways to privatize it. Your devious attempts to say otherwise are just that.

Do you have a problem understanding that our system is some crap hybrid of socialized and private medicine, which is why the system is crap?

I'm not sitting here saying that our system is the best in the world. I'm saying that marxist, I mean socialized medicine would be worse, as the "things" I posted point out quite clearly.

BTW - you still haven't answered why the glorious Cuban system had to save the Glorious Leader's life by calling in a Spanish doctor.

Care to show me where he said this?

His proposal is right at his website:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/health-care-proposal/

1. Every resident of the United States must have free, universal health care for life

2. All health insurance companies must be abolished

3. Pharmaceutical companies must be strictly regulated like a public utility




Which health care system (or systems) do you think ARE the best in the world? Please name them.



I don't know why. I'm sorry, but I don't know the details of Fidel Castro's medical treatment. I can guess why....

The Spanish doctor was one of many doctors that treated him. I'm guessing he was some kind of expert in a certain area, probably better in that area than anyone in Cuba.

You make it sound like that is the only doctor he had. Castro went into the hospital in June 2006 and had several surgeries over the summer and fall. The Spanish doctor saw him in December and only examined him. He did not perform any kind of surgery or treatment on him.

Also, Cuba gets much of its medicine from Spain, and Spain gets most of their vaccines from Cuba. So there is an obvious relationship there between the medical communities of both countries.




Here's an article from Reuters on it:


Spanish doctor disputes Castro health report

The doctor confirmed he had examined Castro last month for 90 minutes, at the request of Cuban authorities, according to CNN


And according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6208451.stm):

Dr Garcia is an expert on intestinal ailments, particularly cancer.

So how is this not socialized healthcare? Do you think the government isn't the one providing all this? And don't say the pharmaceutical companies are private - with that level of government intrusion, they'd be the medical version of the BBC.




Why? Another red herring. The discussion is that ours doesn't need to be socialized. You think it should, I don't. It isn't some pathetic playground, "my dad can beat up your dad."


Wow. That's all really special. Doesn't answer the question. The question was, "if Cuba's healthcare system is so great, why did they have to bring in a Spanish doctor?" Quit dodging. If it's so great, there wouldn't have been any need for it. If there was a need (as there obviously was), then it isn't worthy of the envy you demonstrate.

The doctors and hospitals are still private. They are the ones providing the health care.

As for the pharmaceutical companies, they are not privatized they way they currently are. They receive large government grants for the research they do. So if they develop a drug using our tax money, then the government should have a say in the drug's distribution and pricing. They should be allowed to make a fair profit, just like the public utilities do.

I notice you don't say anything about the insurance companies, or do you think the HMO's are great? And if not, then how do you think they should be improved?




You said "I'm not sitting here saying that our system is the best in the world." in your post above. So I'm simply asking which system you do think is the best. Why are you not able to answer the question?

I even gave you a link to the CIA Fact Book which gives health care stats for every country on the planet. If privatized health care is so great, then surely there must be at least a single country that has privatized health care that has great results. I'm just asking you to list a few, or even one.

Or will you simply acknowledge that ALL (every single one) of the countries that have good health care results also have socialized medicine??



I think if you look at the numbers (again, look at the CIA World Fact Book), I think it is obvious that Spain has a better health care system than does Cuba.

The reason Cuba is always used as an example, is that they are a poor third world country, yet somehow they manage to produce health care results on par with all the industrialized world leaders, and much much better than any other third world country.

They obviously do not produce the best results, as you can see from the numbers I posted. However, I think it is very clear that they produce, by far, the best results per dollar they spend. So while they do not have the best health care in the world, their system and methods of offering health care very well could be the best. With the budget that we (the US) can spend, our results using their system would be 10 times better than theirs is.

Yet with our current system, our results are about the same as theirs, yet we spend 26 times as much money on health care. That is as shameful as the Yankees being 11 games out of first place with a $200 million budget, while a team with a budget of $30 million has a better record. It's an enormous waste of money.

ha ha ha ha

funny how the canadians I treat every winter down here have a very different viewpoint (and physical reality) to moore's claims.

i also know of no british physician who lives like that...

ha ha ha

more michael moore bullshit. yes, a lot of it is true, including the HMO/managed care situation. the owners (usually entrepreneurial docs) make millions at the patient's and my expense. but a lot of it is bunk.


glad to know what i suspect of ms clinton is true, yet eric will still vote for her. ha ha ha

that's the system all right...

Never! :nanana:

If she gets the nomination, I will vote for a third party like I did last time.

The only candidates I will vote for are (if they win the nomination of their party):

Democrats: Dennis Kucinich, John Edwards, maybe Bill Richardson (not sure about him yet)

Republicans: Ron Paul


Of course I could change my mind, but that is the way I see it at this point. If none of those candidates win their party's nomination, I will vote for a third party, most likely the Green Party, or maybe even the Libertarian Party.

OMG I think I just had a heart attack!

I hope you weren't surprised by the inclusion of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich!

For God's sake, they're not even letting Ron Paul into the Iowa debates! Of course, that's because the GOP doesn't want a true conservative, but rather a neocon for their candidate.

I won't even discuss D.K. What a wackjob. :rolleyes:

:popcorn:

Right up until they run afoul of government regulations, but whatever.

Yes. HMO's rock.

Let's see. I'm pretty sure I've been clear on my stance on marxist healthcare.


But I thought any socialized healthcare was better than what we had? You did say this, after all:

You're never going to get me to say that socialized healthcare is better than what we have now. As I've posted, even the countries that have it right now are looking to switch to privitized healthcare. But hey, if you want to keep banging that drum, you go right ahead. Here's hoping that you'll never have to believe that I'm right, only because this country backs away from the chasm of socialized medicine that we're walking up to.

It's funny how you expect the government to be a cradle to grave nanny state, yet you don't like farm subsidies, for example. You also think all cops are corrupt. You can't stand the leadership in the military. When are you going to realize that to get what you want, you'll have to get heaping gobs of what you hate? For all your hatred and vitriol toward the current administration, and mainstream politicians in general, you really want them to be solely in charge of an expanded program of healthcare? You need to wake up. :rolleyes:

This country was not founded on being taken care of. It was founded on pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. Period. No caveat.