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  #411  
Old 05-12-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Overboost View Post
Good test this last weekend at VIR. The track really controlled the virus threat by only allowing entry to a specific named list at the gate. Once arrived you could not leave the facility and come back. We stayed at the Oak Tree Lodge hotel on the premises and had food catered from the Oak Tree Tavern. We finished our test in 3 days and headed home with almost 200 laps per car. We tested our SRO GT4 Aston Martin, an IMSA GT4 Porsche 718 and a GT4 981 Clubsport.

For those that know the paddock entry statue, we couldn't help but placing our mark.

Ahhh... The sounds of high performance engines and the smell of tires and exhaust fumes. My kind of atmosphere!
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  #412  
Old 05-12-2020, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Ah that was a nice mental break from this thread. Checking back in and catching up on what I missed.

I am operating under the assumption EVERYONE has the virus and am cleaning most things I touch, am very careful how I touch them, and wash/sanitize my hands (usually only one hand touches a public object/surface) before touching anything. My wife works from home. We have our groceries delivered. Leave mail and packages on a "decontamination cart" in the garage for 2-3 days. And we only really travel to and from my parent's house. I've been to a grocery store once in the last 60 days. We wear masks when outside in public areas.

I consider our strategy fairly extreme, but we want (especially our children) to be part of the 20-40% of the population that does not get infected over the next 12-18 months. I don't pretend that everyone in the country has the luxury to stay home, or desire to frankly, and don't expect everyone to do what we are doing. People can live their lives the way they see fit. We cancelled a Mother's Day BBQ because my Mom went to a restaurant. Told her, "see you in 14 days." Meanwhile our neighbors across the street had 20-30 people over. Did we call in a complaint or get pissed? No, that's there right.
One should take all precautions deemed appropriate, to protect one’s family.
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  #413  
Old 05-12-2020, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Ah that was a nice mental break from this thread. Checking back in and catching up on what I missed.

Thank you for posting that graphic. I think back on page one or page two I said I thought the WHO, CDC, and gov't would be judged harshly by history for stating masks or face coverings should not be worn. I know why they did it, to protect limited supply for health care system. But would have respected them for saying as much rather than lying outright to the country saying they are ineffectual.

I am operating under the assumption EVERYONE has the virus and am cleaning most things I touch, am very careful how I touch them, and wash/sanitize my hands (usually only one hand touches a public object/surface) before touching anything. My wife works from home. We have our groceries delivered. Leave mail and packages on a "decontamination cart" in the garage for 2-3 days. And we only really travel to and from my parent's house. I've been to a grocery store once in the last 60 days. We wear masks when outside in public areas.

I consider our strategy fairly extreme, but we want (especially our children) to be part of the 20-40% of the population that does not get infected over the next 12-18 months. I don't pretend that everyone in the country has the luxury to stay home, or desire to frankly, and don't expect everyone to do what we are doing. People can live their lives the way they see fit. We cancelled a Mother's Day BBQ because my Mom went to a restaurant. Told her, "see you in 14 days." Meanwhile our neighbors across the street had 20-30 people over. Did we call in a complaint or get pissed? No, that's there right.
I respect what you are doing to keep you and your family members safe. And I understand everyone has their right to do what they want in the face of this unprecedented pandemic. But I just think it is very counter productive having part of the population doing exactly what they damn well please, ignoring all social distancing guidelines, not wearing protective gears, and encouraging others to do the same.

Not to mention the government still lagging behind on their efforts to provide sufficient testing for all the population, and execute fast and detailed contact tracing.

I already made the analogy that fighting this virus is like fighting a war. We can't win this war if every soldier decides by themselves whether they want to follow the guidelines or not.

It's funny calling an order a guideline, but we're not actually in a war.

Or are we?

There's no way this war can be won if we are constantly exposing weakness in the defense line willingly.

It's not hard to realize we'll ultimately lose this war if we continue to fight it the way we're doing right now.
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  #414  
Old 05-12-2020, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
My reference to mobility was the ease we get from place to place in US and virtually anywhere in the world. Not sure what you are referencing.

So then there is a possibility the virus could have been intentionally spread. Weaponizing mobility, with ease.

You are free to believe it was intentionally spread but who would do so? The virus is in almost every country on the planet. Who would infect their own country as well?

This virus is certainly a bad one. WH house is investigating whether virus is manmade. Comments from experts I have heard say it is not. I'll go with the scientists on this one.

I am not going to take any side. I am going to patiently wait throughout the entire investigation, to realize the whole truth. We may never get the whole truth, and it could take years.
There is nothing to wait for. The scientists have already eliminated that possibility

Trust the scientists knowing that they are learning about this virus and their instructions will evolve as they have more data. Same is true of projecting number of infections and deaths. You wouldn't go to a plumber for expert input on fixing an X5 problem would you?

By the time that data gets to you, there is no telling how accurate or true it will be. I personally don't put my trust in man, I put my trust in God. A plumber is not the correct field for BMW repair. However, how many times has an expert BMW repairman intentionally gave misleading information for personal gain?
God won't be providing any statistics. Are you waiting for something that agrees with you? If anything the statistics are going to get worse as there have been some number of deaths at home that weren't diagnosed. I have not read about one scientist saying the statistics have been inflated. Where is your information from?

Why does it matter?

It matters because if the virus did not from the market, but instead came from the lab it leaves a slew of unanswered questions. And an investigation will most certainly be required.The experts have already said the virus is not manmade. They haven't proven it wasn't a leak from the lab or originated from the market. There is an effort to determine the source.

Some people have a way of profiting in the worst of situations by luck or intent. Same could be true of countries but I don't believe the virus was intentionally 'released'.

So its your personal belief that the virus is a natural disaster. What evidence do you have to support that belief? Not second hand or third hand data, personal data acquired by you personally.No source, it's just logical. All but a few countries have had an outbreak. What country would be willing to harm their own people to infect another country?

Different businesses are opened in different stages. Some of criteria are level of necessity of business, size of crowd and ability to comply with social distancing. Stages have nothing to do with money.

The sole purpose of reopening commerce is to get the economy functioning again. I.e. MONEY.To some it is the sole purpose. To those that understand what can happen if it is not done according to the CDC guidelines it should never be just about the economy.

No, absolutely no indication this was an attack.

What personal, not second, third hand data do you have to prove this statement? No, absolutely no indication this was an attack.

So you believe it is was planned attack on the US by a person, persons, organization or country to increase their wealth?

There will need to be a thorough investigation into this pandemic. This will likely take years. I have no direct opinion at this time with regards to it being a natural disaster, or biological attack. There will always be goofball conspiracy theories. So if you are looking for endorsement you will have it. One will likely be that China has a vaccine and is not telling the rest of the world.

Only time will tell what really happened during the start of 2020. But I am definitely not going to be naïve to what is happening around me.

The above statement in green is a personal belief, and has no implication toward any member of the forum.
OK, so you are not naming who is naive it is just a general statement that anyone that believes the scientists is naive?
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  #415  
Old 05-12-2020, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
But I just think it is very counter productive having part of the population doing exactly what they damn well please, ignoring all social distancing guidelines, not wearing protective gears, and encouraging others to do the same.
I guess it depends on what the goal is. If herd immunity (60-80% infected and recovered) is the goal. Perhaps it's not the worst idea. And herd immunity with this virus might not even be a thing. It's just too new still. We are getting conflicting studies all the time regarding efficacy of treatments under trials. Now many strains there are. How deadly one is vs another. And whether you can be reinfected. The ultimate question might be how long will individuals tolerate a lockdown (I think that limit is being reached) and how long it will take to get a vaccine, if ever. I don't think we can switch the economy on and off until we have a vaccine. Even if I agree it were the best way to proceed, the American public couldn't take that. And it's debatable whether the economy could survive it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
Not to mention the government still lagging behind on their efforts to provide sufficient testing for all the population, and execute fast and detailed contact tracing.
The war analogy was a mistake by our politicians. That's not what this is at all. Unless we are admitting it was unleashed intentionally by whatever country it originated from. Very American though to dub it a war. It's most likely either something that was accidentally released from a research lab or a naturally occurring viral mutation.

I agree we aren't testing enough. But I don't think we'll ever be able to test enough. Or it will take such a long time to get to that point that it may be a moot point.

It's really a horrible situation to be in for all involved, the entire world. But perhaps our hubris at being able to control every aspect of our domain is being challenged? We just might not have the resources to control a pandemic and it will have to run its course as previous ones have until a vaccine is reached. I don't have the answer obviously, no one does, and only history will show if control was possible and bungled. Or, if it teaches us a lesson that we weren't prepared in the first place for something like this (I'm leaning this way) and that bringing manufacturing back home, socializing health care, having a more coordinated Federal/State action effort is needed. All of those are highly political "footballs" and I am not advocating (in this thread) one way or the other. Just that our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, are going to have some soul searching to do.
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  #416  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
I guess it depends on what the goal is. If herd immunity (60-80% infected and recovered) is the goal. Perhaps it's not the worst idea. And herd immunity with this virus might not even be a thing. It's just too new still. We are getting conflicting studies all the time regarding efficacy of treatments under trials. Now many strains there are. How deadly one is vs another. And whether you can be reinfected. The ultimate question might be how long will individuals tolerate a lockdown (I think that limit is being reached) and how long it will take to get a vaccine, if ever. I don't think we can switch the economy on and off until we have a vaccine. Even if I agree it were the best way to proceed, the American public couldn't take that. And it's debatable whether the economy could survive it too.



The war analogy was a mistake by our politicians. That's not what this is at all. Unless we are admitting it was unleashed intentionally by whatever country it originated from. Very American though to dub it a war. It's most likely either something that was accidentally released from a research lab or a naturally occurring viral mutation.

I agree we aren't testing enough. But I don't think we'll ever be able to test enough. Or it will take such a long time to get to that point that it may be a moot point.

It's really a horrible situation to be in for all involved, the entire world. But perhaps our hubris at being able to control every aspect of our domain is being challenged? We just might not have the resources to control a pandemic and it will have to run its course as previous ones have until a vaccine is reached. I don't have the answer obviously, no one does, and only history will show if control was possible and bungled. Or, if it teaches us a lesson that we weren't prepared in the first place for something like this (I'm leaning this way) and that bringing manufacturing back home, socializing health care, having a more coordinated Federal/State action effort is needed. All of those are highly political "footballs" and I am not advocating (in this thread) one way or the other. Just that our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, are going to have some soul searching to do.
Herd immunity should never be a goal, considering how deadly this virus is to certain age group of the population.

I cannot fathom continually having this virus rampaging out there unchecked, uncontrolled, while our dear family members are exposed to it without any effective means of killing it.

You may not wish to admit it, but there are many aspects of this pandemic that is very much like a war.

Like war, we have to lay out a defensive line to contain the enemy's attack.

It's a defensive war at the moment, since we have no effective way of killing it. Our current and only viable goal is containment.

We cannot successfully contain it if there's constant breach of our defense line by our own people.

Lowering the "R" number down to 1 and hopefully below one is our primary way of finghting it and then relaxing the social distancing mandate and then allowing the economy back in force slowly and carefully.
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  #417  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
Herd immunity should never be a goal, considering how deadly this virus is to certain age group of the population.
I agree. But barring any other alternative, it may be the only way. I don't like it any more than you do. Hopefully I'm wrong and a vaccine is available much sooner than they expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
I cannot fathom continually having this virus rampaging out there unchecked, uncontrolled, while our dear family members are exposed to it without any effective means of killing it.

You may not wish to admit it, but there are many aspects of this pandemic that is very much like a war.

Like war, we have to lay out a defensive line to contain the enemy's attack.

It's a defensive war at the moment, since we have no effective way of killing it. Our current and only viable goal is containment.

We cannot successfully contain it if there's constant breach of our defense line by our own people.
But the war analogy falls apart once you take the economy down. In war time we are still producing. Unemployment, I believe, typically goes down. Not up. And maybe GDP goes up in war time? I'd have to look it up. I don't "wish" to call it anything except a horrible rock and hard place that the world is in. I just think calling it a war gives the illusion we currently have a way of dealing a "blow" against the enemy, or even defending against it. But again, whatever name you give it, the situation is the same. I'll call it a war if it furthers the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
Lowering the "R" number down to 1 and hopefully below one is our primary way of finghting it and then relaxing the social distancing mandate and then allowing the economy back in force slowly and carefully.
I agree on lowering the R value. We agree on the principles. We just disagree on how feasible it is for the government to keep printing money and for people to go into their homes. I understand your point of hammer and dance, but, as we're seeing, once you open things up, people go about their everyday lives. This is an unprecedented event in our history. Not the pandemic, but how we're handling it. We'll see how it progresses. We are all along for the ride. Do what you can to keep you and yours safe. We can't control other people, only ourselves.
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  #418  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:55 PM
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OK, so you are not naming who is naive it is just a general statement that anyone that believes the scientists is naive?

No BC! I am not naming anyone. I am saying for ME. I am not quick to drink anyone’s kool-aid right now. From the president of the United States, scientists, and definitely not the news agencies or reporters.

All I am saying is, be aware of what is happening immediately around you. And take proper action or precaution.

Like Crystal said, he has an entire regiment he has been following. Even, if it means separating himself from his parents. Tough I know, but it’s his practice. If it keeps him safe, thats all that matters.

He is using his personal wisdom. He is not being naive.

Sorry Crystal to put you on the stand.
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  #419  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:03 PM
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I haven’t seen my folks for over 3 months and I miss them very much. They are safe at my sisters place with her doing all the shopping online and sanitizing herself whenever she returns home.

We keep in touch by phone but it’s just not the same.
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  #420  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:06 PM
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RE: X5 Unrelated, but Good Information in Times of Need

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
I haven’t seen my folks for over 3 months and I miss them very much. They are safe at my sisters place with her doing all the shopping online and sanitizing herself whenever she returns home.

We keep in touch by phone but it’s just not the same.

I know it’s awful! My oldest child is an adult, and he has been on his own for awhile. I’ve only seen him twice for 5 minutes at a time, in 3 1/2 months.

We use the video chat, but your right. It is still depressing.
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