FYI: A person can come here legally, look for a job legally, find one and apply, while s/he is still legally here, for legal persmission to stay here and work. However, those applications currently take anywhere from 90 - 180 days to process. S/he is allowed to stay here "legally" while it is being processed. However, if the application is denied, that person becomes an "illegal alien" the instant the application is denied. Even worse, that persons "illegal" status is RETROACTIVE to the date his/her original authorized stay expired. In other words, current immigration law treats him/her as if s/he had NEVER filed an application and had just decided to stay here illegally.

This is just one example of the way current U.S. immigration law "manufactures" illegal aliens. People who think the line between "legal" and "illegal" is bright and clear and that all "illegal" aliens are bad/immoral/criminals, etc. are simply ignorant of how screwed up our immigration laws are right now.

I'm not in favor of amnesty fwiw, but I am in favor of some sort of rational immigration policy and "kick out all the illegals" ain't it.

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Frank

Current Ride:
'04 4.4i Carbon Black Met./Dove Grey
NAV, Sprt Pkg, Star Spoke 87's

Recently Sold (and still crying about it):
'95 Dinan M3 Avus Blue/Dove Grey
LTW Wheels and adjustable front splitter

I think most people fail to realize that most illegal immigrants do not get into the US by sneaking across the border. They come in legally, but then overstay. Most come as tourists who are visiting, and there is really no effective way to deal with this.

Should a Mexican family not be allowed to go on vacation to the United States the same way Americans visit Mexico on vacation? What about people from other countries? Are we going to shut down the entire tourism industry in the US to foreignors? Only to people from certain countries?

I'm not sure that "most" illegal immigrants are overstays, but certainly a lot of them are. The "sneaking accross the border" flavor of illegal immigration is certainly a problem that has to be addressed, but so many people think that "illegal immigrant" = "mexican national who snuck into the U.S." and that's simply not what it means. In addition, a pretty big part of the problem is created by the laws themselves and how they're implemented (as demonstrated in my previous post). Spending time and $ trying to kick "illegals" out without addressing why and how they got here in the first place is pretty dumb imho.

__________________
Frank

Current Ride:
'04 4.4i Carbon Black Met./Dove Grey
NAV, Sprt Pkg, Star Spoke 87's

Recently Sold (and still crying about it):
'95 Dinan M3 Avus Blue/Dove Grey
LTW Wheels and adjustable front splitter

That may or may not be. The point is the demonstration on May the 1st is about complete amnesty. It is not about the issue regarding the process regarding what it takes to become a citizen. The U.S. immigration law does not ask anyone to come across the border into the country illegally" and anyone who uses the excuse that the US manufactures" illegal aliens dosen't have a clue regarding what the May first issue is about. Anyone can argue about the problems of immigration but apparently millions of other people have gone thru the process legally. If they can do it so can everyone else. In this case I maintain my position that having a demonstration to justify brakeing the law dosen't cut it with me.

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

This is not the first time there has been a large demonstration to justify breaking a law...

One that quickly comes to mind is the demonstrations in Montgomery Alabama after the Rosa Parks incident in 1955. Rosa Parks broke the law, and the demonstrators wanted amnesty for her as well as a change in the law.

The goals of the demonstrators on May 1st is rather similar. They want Amnesty for all those who have broken this law, and they want a change in the law as well.

I actually happen to know a little bit about the "May first issue" as well as the political circumstances behind these recent grass roots efforts to keep Congress from passing an enforcement-only Bill. I also happen to know a little bit about "the process" of "legally" immigrating to the U.S. Up until 1996, an illegal alien who had a job offer, or a spouse and/or children who were already legally here, could legalize his/her status by paying a fine. That program no longer exists, so your "if they can do it so can everyone else" argument requires assumptions that simply aren't correct. This particular avenue of "legally" immigrating is gone. Many others are gone as well. Literally hundreds of thousands of immigrants "legally" immigrated to the U.S. through procedures which no longer exist. Their actions were identical to the actions of the "illegal" aliens you are currently condemning. They are legal merely because Congress says that they are, not because they are any more "moral" or "law-abiding" than "illegal" immigrants today.

Just as an example, if a U.S. citizen meets and falls in love with an illegal alien, I happen to think they should be allowed to get married and continue their lives here in the U.S.. As a U.S. citizen, I think my country should allow me to do that. Well, they don't - not anymore. This country is so interested in "punishing" my betrothed for the "crime" of sneaking into the U.S. that she is no longer allowed to legalize her status based on a marriage to me. This means she either stays here as my illegal alien wife, or I expatriate myself to go live in her country with her. Not exactly the kind of choices I think my country should be giving me - and that's just ONE example.

Looking at this demonstration as simply a demonstration to justify "breaking the law" is a very, very simplistic view of the issues involved. I could start talking about civil disobedience here, and how it has helped eliminate laws promoting segregation, gender discrimination, etc. but that would make this post even longer than it already is. Suffice it to say that you should probably investigate the law a little bit further before you decide to oppose a demonstration pertaining to that law.

__________________
Frank

Current Ride:
'04 4.4i Carbon Black Met./Dove Grey
NAV, Sprt Pkg, Star Spoke 87's

Recently Sold (and still crying about it):
'95 Dinan M3 Avus Blue/Dove Grey
LTW Wheels and adjustable front splitter

Whatever the process that's avaliable is the process an honerable person should persue. Whatever existed then is not the process now so it is incumbant on those who enter the country to follow the process for legal status regardless of how you feel about it. As far as your marriage example is concerned it changes nothing. As you say your betrothed committed the "crime" of sneaking into the U.S. The operative wird here is crime. Whatever the law is if your really serious about being a citizen then follow it. Work thru the process. If there happens to be loopholes that can be taken advantage of then that to is the law until it is changed.

As you say "You could start talking about here, and how it has helped eliminate laws promoting segregation, gender discrimination but if I were you i wouldn't go there because each of the things you mention were issues facing American citizens not illegal aliens. Illegal aliens don't have the right to civil disobedience.

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

1. If she has entered U.S. legally (with proper I-94) and overstayed, she has a very good chance of being pardoned and get a legal status by marrying a citizen. 2. However, if she has entered the country ILLEGALLY you are correct.
I am not an immigration attorney, but I personally know who went through 1.
Just my 2 cents.

Just as an example, if a U.S. citizen meets and falls in love with an illegal alien, I happen to think they should be allowed to get married and continue their lives here in the U.S.. As a U.S. citizen, I think my country should allow me to do that. Well, they don't - not anymore. This country is so interested in "punishing" my betrothed for the "crime" of sneaking into the U.S. that she is no longer allowed to legalize her status based on a marriage to me. This means she either stays here as my illegal alien wife, or I expatriate myself to go live in her country with her. Not exactly the kind of choices I think my country should be giving me - and that's just ONE example.

What should be done with those "illegal immigrants" that are paying taxes?? Because contrary to popular beliefs, by obtaining a tax ID number, anyone, including illegal immigrants , can file their taxes!!! Am I right to assume that the biggest problem with illegal immigration is that there are no taxes being paid and that instead there are costs, and burdens being brought upon the US??? If so, then it I would also tend to assume that the one's that are filing their taxes should be granted an amnesty and be allowed to become legal US residents!!!

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