Accella...This just goes to show how ignorant the average illegal immigrant is. I take that back...I'm going to shed the political-correctness for a moment...

...This shows how fu*king stupid the average illegal immigrant is; or anyone who supports this jackass-rhetoric.

If they were just a little smarter, they'd realize that Bush is one of the illegals' greatest advocates (<----much to my disgust).

I voted for Bush and support him accordingly except for when it comes to his pimp-job and sell-out attitude as it concerns illegal immigration.

Chris

I don't think we can hate people who have the bad luck to grow up poor. And we have to be careful to confuse stupidity with lack of education. I've been to Haiti and to Costa Rica and I've seen the barrios of Caracas. I'd want to come to America, too. The guy paying a coyote to smuggle him across the border is grateful for a job hosing down the floor of a slaughterhouse, he's not planning a coup. But I think we have a right to demand that he learn English, not fly his hometown flag, and not be a criminal.

"Gang-related homicides now account for 68% of all child and adolescent homicides in Los Angeles county. The root causes of violent street gang formation are poverty, stressed families, unemployment, under-employment, undereducation, racism, and the breakdown of sociocultural institutions." (The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) October 4, 1995)

We have a right and obligation to demand a process that does not implode our country. I can't just overstay my visa or enter a foreign country illegally, thus there has to be respect for the countries and borders of every country. Ever tried sneaking into Mexico? They really frown on it.

We have to direct our anger to the sell-outs and corporate pander patrol in Washington. We have been complacent...If 100,000 people would link arms with the Minutemen or write their Senators, the sluggards in Washington would listen. It's our fault in many ways.

Since this thread started, I have been meaning to write my senators. Have I? No, not yet. Complacency in action.

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read this article makes very good points, they want civil rights but they are NOT OUR CITIZENS
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/04/us...rtner=homepage

Nothing surprising at all...In fact, this is very-much inline with their current lack of intelligence/abudance of arrogance.

They have a sense of entitlement despite the fact that they are law-breakers and clearly have no respect for this country.

I find fairly predictable responses from people who already believe what they believe and aren't really interested in listening to anything to the contrary.

My view may be a lot of things, but ignorant isn't one of them. Ironically, perhaps the most common "tactic" used by people who oppose immigration reform is to remain willfully ignorant of the human side of this issue.

It's very easy to say "deport all criminals" when you don't know them, or their families, or the circumstances of their crimes. It becomes a bit harder (at least it does for me) when the "criminal" being deported is a 19 year old girl who came here when she was 5 and is being deported because she got caught at a party with a quarter gram of crystal meth. It becomes harder still when I have to explain to her parents, her brothers and her sisters that the law simply doesn't care that she was a good student and had never even had a speeding ticket before this happened. It's irrelevant that she knows nobody in her country of origin and doesn't even speak the language. The next time I face a situation like this, I'll just send them to you - after all, I'm just ignorant; you'll do a much better job explaining how permanent exile from the only country you know is an appropriate punishment for being a stupid teenager.

I happen to think that laws which lead to a result like that really, really suck. If you don't, good for you. You can take a conviction and turn it into a parade of horribles if it makes you feel better, but it's an ignorant view. Reality is a bit harder to swallow.

The story about the 19 year old caught with crystal meth is a true story, by the way. One of many I could tell. Another true story is about the 22 year old with the gun charge. He was a straight A student at USC. He got pulled over for speeding. Gun was in the glove box and the officer saw it when the kid opened the glove box for the registration. He'd been to the firing range with his Dad a couple of days earlier and he'd forgotten to take the gun out of his car. Not very smart to put it in the glove box instead of in the trunk, and dumber still to forget about it, but not exactly the "murder waiting to happen" picture you paint in your post.

To wrap up the remaining "loose ends" addressed in your post, you apparently think that every alien convicted of DUI is driving maniacly with a fake driver's license - well, good for you. You also apparently think that any alien busted for shoplifting came here specifically intending to rip us off. Bravo. None of that is true of course, but if believing that makes it easier for you to justify ruining lives and ripping families apart for minor offenses like this, then go ahead and continue to believe it, you're certainly not alone.

__________________
Frank

Current Ride:
'04 4.4i Carbon Black Met./Dove Grey
NAV, Sprt Pkg, Star Spoke 87's

Recently Sold (and still crying about it):
'95 Dinan M3 Avus Blue/Dove Grey
LTW Wheels and adjustable front splitter

Frank I understand the problem of exiling someone who was brought here when he/she was not even aware of what was going on and it definitely does suck. It is unfair but life is not fair. What about kids that are citizens get caught with a quarter gram of crystal meth? Or what happens if in NYC you are caught for possession of pot? What happens is you get locked up. In my opinion I'd rather have my freedom, the gun story yes once again it sucks but again what would happen if I was caught driving with a gun in my car? Whether its mine/my dads/driving range or not? I get locked up once again. And the thief isnt here to loot or steal per say they do what they have to in order to survive true but that puts people in danger. what is YOUR alternative to this problem? So say that girl gets caught what do we do slap her wrists give her a citizenship and send her on her merry way? That shows a hell of a lot, hell I might want to become illegal and do all this shit if all i'm going to get is a slap on my wrist. You are great at arguing the cause however as half the people fighting for this cause you have yet to mention what we SHOULD do.

and just one more side note, if you came here for a better life why jeopardize that? why do that crystal meth or own that gun if there is a chance it could be used against you? Though I am fully against illegal immigration, for some reason the group in question of this discussion seems to be swarming with more bad than good. The problem with this situation is that now everyone is being reverse discriminated against because illegals are now claiming we dont like them and we are bad and if i say something about them then i'm a racist right? and i get the civil liberties activists on my @$$ where are my rights why are they privi to more than i am? i didnt say they dont deserve to live or eat but they have NO RIGHT to restrict me. as per the article i posted earlier it seems they want a civil rights movement? WHAT THE F for? The blacks were here brought here AGAINST their will, put to work AGAINST their will killed for disobeying their "masters". When they were freed what the F are they supposed to do? they were as much rightful citizens as the guy next door. I'm a jew and guess what in WWII a ship filled with jews fleeing europe came to shore in the US and was turned away, sent the F*$K back and you know what happened to them? They were killed what threat did they pose? they were fleeing from being killed. what are the mexicans fleeing from? poverty? guess what it aint better here we have plenty of our own problems. no one brought them here against their will, no one tried to kill 6 million of them or put them to slavery why do they think they deserve something? we dont owe them $H!T, if i go to Switzerland right now will i get any rights there? the correct answer is NO, no matter how legal i am. people want to come here do it right as mentioned earlier and as the process i had to go through: Get a medical check we have enough diseases here, get a sponsor someone who will vouch for you and your actions and will support you until you get up on your feet, and DONT take advantage of welfare we have plenty of those. stop thinking you are g-ds gifts to this country and you are doing us such a favor by being here. and maybe then you will have some ground for an argument. if you can dispute any of this please feel free.

If you or I do these stupid things we have to pay for it. Pay a fine, maybe spend some time in jail. Immigrants have to do the same thing. However, in addition to that, they often face permanent exile. Let's take my stupid teenager, since it was her first offense, she was given time served (3 days, I think) plus diversion. However, her conviction also made her deportable. So she does her time, completes her diversion program, then get's put in jail again by U.S. immigration, where she spent the next 3 months fighting deportation, then gets ordered deported (because at the time there was no defense for what she did), then gets shipped back to the Philippines. I have no problem with the jail time she did or the diversion program she attended. However, I think that forcibly separating her from her family and evicting her from the country is more than a little excessive.

This example represents just one example of how screwed up our current immigration laws are. That is why I'm in favor of immigration reform. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of amnesty for illegals - I'm not. However, I happen to think that before we decide to kick them all out, we should probably pay attention to who they are first. Believing that someone should be kicked out just because they're "illegal" is just as ignorant as believe someone should be kicked out just because they're a "criminal." I think whether or not they are contributing to our society and/or our economy should be relevant. I also think that whether or not they would be leaving family here in the U.S. should be relevant. I think if an illegal alien is here doing important cancer research, he should probably be allowed to stay - currently, he's not. I think that if an illegal alien is the only child of 8 who is not legal, and that his 7 siblings as well as both of his parents are U.S. citizens, it might be OK to let him stay here too - currently, he can't.

__________________
Frank

Current Ride:
'04 4.4i Carbon Black Met./Dove Grey
NAV, Sprt Pkg, Star Spoke 87's

Recently Sold (and still crying about it):
'95 Dinan M3 Avus Blue/Dove Grey
LTW Wheels and adjustable front splitter