WARNING: Political Thread

[Wagner]

Aww well that's a nice excuse I guess......

Similar to the way that guy who killed the Amish kids was 'made that way' 20 years ago.

And why weren't they doing that, because Saddam would have killed them before they had the chance.

Looking for the justification for a war that started 3 years ago is too late, asking why people killed their own civilians 3 hours ago is the question.

[Eric5273]

It's called a civil war. We had one back in the 1860s. And if memory serves me right, a similar number of our people were killed as well. The point here is that our invasion triggered this civil war, and is partly responsible for these deaths. (I said "partly", not 100% responsible)

If the NYPD goes on strike tonight, and there are 100 murders in NYC, who is responsible? Do the officers who went on strike bear some of the responsibility, or does 100% of the fault lie with those who committed the murders?

Are we a civilized "society", or just a bunch of individuals living in anarchy?

[Wagner]

Mostly the latter.

To answer the police question, no I wouldn't fault the NYPD for 100 deaths. It amazes me what low expectations people have of others sometime. Reminds me of a Chris Rock line:

"I ain't ever been to jail." "What, you're not suppose to you low expectation mother F____r"

Our Civil War didn't involve intentionally killing children, blowing up schools or religious places. Again comparing things with little relativity aside from death.

[Roc3b]

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Care to share a reference for that?

Everything I have read says that they got the yellowcake from South African's Apartheid government in exchange for chemical weapons technology.

my finger tips....

With all of the support via military and American tax $$$$ that go to Israel from our government you want me to find a form with official letter head that say it in black in white that we provided various pieces of information to fast track Israel to a nuclear power.

All you need to do is think about it...I love my country...I fought for my country....I would die for my country if asked to defend my family and other families from harm, but I will also sit here and rationalize why different clandestine elements of our government would see it in the best interest for influence in the Middle East if for no other purpose other than seeing Israel after the 6 day war have an element of deterrence which is a nuclear deterrence.

There is something called the non proliferation treaty to which we are a soignée, so how can you sign that treaty,balk at everyone who is trying to go nuclear and yet still give it to your best friend in a bad neighborhood?!?!

Ya do it on the down low. It is not rocket science...and I should know...that is what my Grandpa was and his favorite saying cuz it isn't that hard and things are what they are.

The nuclear equation is easy, getting a controlled nuclear reaction is hard. We are one of the top five arms dealers in the world, think we could not facilitate a meeting with the South Africans and the Israelis via the CIA? Or help the process some other way? What like you think we did not know what they were doing at the time? Did we ask them to stop?

I went to Grad school with two kids from Israel and based on my conversations with them we assisted in portions of the process. The topic came up when I used to ask them about different issues that they face everyday at home because we used to work in groups on projects where a Syrian, an Indian, an Israeli, a German, and a Pakistani all worked together for a common goal. It baffles me so that we could all work together but once everyone got back on their piece of dirt feelings and emotions change.

Is there a smoking gun that I can point to?

No...but it does not mean that it did not happen.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Roc3b

my finger tips....

With all of the support via military and American tax $$$$ that go to Israel from our government you want me to find a form with official letter head that say it in black in white that we provided various pieces of information to fast track Israel to a nuclear power.

All you need to do is think about it...I love my country...I fought for my country....I would die for my country if asked to defend my family and other families from harm, but I will also sit here and rationalize why different clandestine elements of our government would see it in the best interest for influence in the Middle East if for no other purpose other than seeing Israel after the 6 day war have an element of deterrence which is a nuclear deterrence.

There is something called the non proliferation treaty to which we are a soignée, so how can you sign that treaty,balk at everyone who is trying to go nuclear and yet still give it to your best friend in a bad neighborhood?!?!

Ya do it on the down low. It is not rocket science...and I should know...that is what my Grandpa was and his favorite saying cuz it isn't that hard and things are what they are.

The nuclear equation is easy, getting a controlled nuclear reaction is hard. We are one of the top five arms dealers in the world, think we could not facilitate a meeting with the South Africans and the Israelis via the CIA? Or help the process some other way? What like you think we did not know what they were doing at the time? Did we ask them to stop?

I went to Grad school with two kids from Israel and based on my conversations with them we assisted in portions of the process. The topic came up when I used to ask them about different issues that they face everyday at home because we used to work in groups on projects where a Syrian, an Indian, an Israeli, a German, and a Pakistani all worked together for a common goal. It baffles me so that we could all work together but once everyone got back on their piece of dirt feelings and emotions change.

Is there a smoking gun that I can point to?

No...but it does not mean that it did not happen.

I'm not asking for a government document. I'm asking for some sort of source that even makes such a claim. We are on the internet here. Surely if there is any credibility to this story of yours, then there would be newspaper articles, papers written on it, former CIA operatives who leaked information, etc. Perhaps it would not appear in the New York Times, but some conspiracy website would have information on it. But I find nothing, so I think your claim here is.....



I do however find articles about the French helping with Israel's nuclear program, and others claiming Israel got uranium from South Africa.

[JonK]

Originally Posted by drex

regarding north korea, you ALL should read up on madeleine albright and clinton's foreign policy regarding north korea....

or let me sum it up for you:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashma.htm

Great post and reference.

Attacking NK will not make any sense, since the casualty will approach close to a million in very shot period of time. Despite the fact they should be #1 target for having WMD in current admistrations logic.

It is not relevant to me what president did as a crazy kid, or got a sexual favor in his office, even though I don't agree with his act morally AS LONG AS HE DOES HIS JOB. What would be the point of personal attacks? That goes either way.

[Roc3b]

Originally Posted by Eric5273

I'm not asking for a government document. I'm asking for some sort of source that even makes such a claim. We are on the internet here. Surely if there is any credibility to this story of yours, then there would be newspaper articles, papers written on it, former CIA operatives who leaked information, etc. Perhaps it would not appear in the New York Times, but some conspiracy website would have information on it. But I find nothing, so I think your claim here is.....



I do however find articles about the French helping with Israel's nuclear program, and others claiming Israel got uranium from South Africa.

I can feel the way that I feel about it...and you can feel the way that you do about it. IMO I think we assisted Isreal to aquire nuclear technology and you know what. I have not one problem with it because I know that they would never use it to leverage another country or intimidate others. Now we can debate how they treat Palestineans which is whole nother situation. I think if IRAN gets the bomb they would use a tactical and say Allah told them it was his will.

[BMW X5]

Originally Posted by Roc3b

I can feel the way that I feel about it...and you can feel the way that you do about it. IMO I think we assisted Isreal to aquire nuclear technology and you know what. I have not one problem with it because I know that they would never use it to leverage another country or intimidate others. Now we can debate how they treat Palestineans which is whole nother situation. I think if IRAN gets the bomb they would use a tactical and say Allah told them it was his will.