gresch:

I mean no disrespect but If anyone ever gave you a well thought out, backed up by references answer to any question I doubt that it would do much good. I say that because it appears at least from my vantage point that whatever argument that is presented would serve no purpose with you because the argument is what you savor not a pragmatic solution to any issue.

Don't get me wrong it's your right to ring the bell but in all honesty none of it rings true to me. Argueing about a problem no matter what serves no purpose. Reasoning about what can be done to solve a problem is the first step to the solution. So can some one please provide me a pragmatic solution to the issues at hand based on sound wise reasoning?

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

I agree with those of us who voted because we want a change. I don't think the Republicans have done a good job. I don't think it was so bad during the earlier parts of Bush's presidency, but things are just getting worse and worse. There are more and more scandals coming out, Iraq is a mess... If we send in more troops, it just means more lives lost, with no end in sight. However if we just pulled out right now, the country would most likely collapse on itself and this whole effort would have been completely useless. I personally believe in moderation. This country is not headed in a good direction if we just have the Left-wingers and the Right-wingers clashing constantly. We need to compromise. Someone who is a Republican isn't automatically a money-hungry bigot, a Democrat isn't automatically some bleeding-heart pansy, or whatever the stereotype is. We need someone who isn't guided so much by the party. When I registered to vote yesterday, I registered as independent because I'm not enthralled about either party. Politics are just stressful at this point. I'm hoping that having a Republican president and a Democratic congress will encourage compromise and better party relations. I may be too optimistic, but.. We shall see.
Just my $0.02

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Woweee....some passionate stuff here...too many ideas to focus on, almost. IMO, we can't read too much into this "sea change" that happened last night. The democrats who got elected tended to be Blue Dog, conservative or centrists. Don't break out the hash pipes yet.

Several states held referendums on gay marriage, and I believe that, except for Arizona, the electorate chose a traditional definition of marriage. That tells me the country is still fairly conservative.

IMO, George Allen got what he deserved, as did Foley's vacant seat. Montana is interesting, but were folks voting for Tester or against Burns?

We have to criticize any perceived failure in Iraq against the backdrop of a country which has failed thus far to produce a Ghandi, a Churchill, or even a Halle Selassie. The best training and support in the world will not make up for a country devoid of a national will. I am hardly a hawk, but IMO, the Sunnis, like the minority mafia they were under Hussein, would terrorize Iraq if "we" just up and left. (but we need to get out ASAP) There are voices of democracy trying to be heard in Iraq...should we abandon them?

The democrats will never choke off money for the Iraq war...the jihadis don't want us out of their country, they want us out of our country as well. Remember the Danish cartoons...I'm sure Pelosi does.

May we live in interesting times.

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Right on the button.

Unfortunately, this has already happened. Our presence there is just contributing to the violence and chaos. We are just another faction of the many factions fighting it out.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

The Democrats say we need a "new direction" in Iraq. Yeah, it's called "reverse." Democrats keep talking about a new military strategy in Iraq. How exactly is cut-and-run a new strategy? The French have been doing it for years. The Democrats are calling their new plan for Iraq "Operation Somalia."

The Democrats certainly have their work cut out for them. They have only two years to release as many terrorists as possible and lock up as many Republicans as they can. Republicans better get that body armor for the troops the Democrats are always carping about — and fast. The troops are going to need it for their backs

I have a serious problem with # 2. Im in that tax bracket.
Why should I pay a higher percent in Taxes than anyone else. Its not fair. I worked extremely hard to get to where I am and why should I be penalized for it. I put almost 20 years of schooling to get my double business degree and MBA. I put in 60 to 80 hours of work in a week every week. Why do I have to pay more taxes than anyone else does. Its bullshit. You think I should be penalized because I worked and still work my fucking ass off. Give me a break.

On top of that the more the govnt taxes me the less money I will have to reinvest in my companies and make them grow and hire more employees. So that is less jobs I can provide. Last year I saved 60k in taxes as a direct result of tax laws the rebublicans passed. I used that plus some of my own cash to start yet another business and created 6 more jobs on top of the 100 or so employees I already employ. The employees count on me and others like me to provide them with good secure jobs. Now if im taxed to death and I go out of business its not just me out of a job. Its over 100 people out of a job. How do you justify that. I believe tax burdens should be equal and fair. There are many more things I would like to say here but I wont bother.

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Dinan M3

2006 X5 4.4i Sport Current Vehicle
2006 CLS 55 AMG Current Vehicle
2010 FORD F-450 King Ranch Current Vehicle
2012 GL 550 Current Vehicle

1999 M3 Dinan S3 SOLD
2001 M3 Dinan S2 SOLD
2002 M5 SOLD
2004 X5 4.4i sport SOLD
2007 335 XI Lease ended
2009 E92 M3 SOLD

I can agree with that. Flat tax is the most fair, but will never happen.

Then you have a serious problem with the United States income tax law (and that of 99% of the countries in the world) which calls for a progressive income tax. How progressive is up for debate. But it sounds like you are against the idea of a progressive tax in general.

Even the proposed "flat tax" system is progressive in that it allows the first $30k or so of income to be tax free.

Be happy that you live at a time when the highest tax bracket is the lowest of any time in our country's history since the income tax was started. There were times when the highest tax bracket was as high as 94% (during WWII). In fact, from the time of WWII until the early 1980s, the highest tax bracket never dipped below 70%. Now it is half of that. Do you think the trend towards an increasing smaller percentage of the population controlling an ever increasing percentage of the total wealth in recent years has anything to do with that?

When you cut the amount of tax being paid by the wealthy, the end result is that you increase the amount paid by the lower class. The Republicans usually get around this by saying they will simply cut spending. But when they cut spending, it always starts with items that fall under the category of "state aid". That then results in the states increasing taxes to make up for their budget gap, and the taxes that are usually raised are sales tax, which is a regressive tax (the opposite of progressive, i.e. poor people pay a higher percentage of their income than wealthy people).

For the bottom 20% of Americans, their tax burden has increased under this president. They all received rather tiny (around $100-200) tax rebates, and their local income taxes then rose by 1-2%.

If the Republicans are going to say that we are in a time of war, then the upper class should be taxed like they have been in previous wars.

Conservatives like to say that the country has gone to hell in recent years and that things were better back in the 1940s & 1950s. If that is so, then let's bring back the income tax code of the 1950s. The highest tax bracket back then was 91%.

And BTW, if you saved $60k due to a 3.6% decrease in the tax on your income above $300k, then I certainly do not feel bad for you. You are in the top 0.1% of Americans. Who I feel bad for are the 20% of American children that live below the poverty line. The poverty line means that a family of 4 lives on less than $19k per year (gross income before taxes).

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...