Congratulations U.S. Members

Eric5273 · #1 11-09-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINANM3

I have a serious problem with # 2. Im in that tax bracket.
Why should I pay a higher percent in Taxes than anyone else. Its not fair. I worked extremely hard to get to where I am and why should I be penalized for it. I put almost 20 years of schooling to get my double business degree and MBA. I put in 60 to 80 hours of work in a week every week. Why do I have to pay more taxes than anyone else does. Its bullshit. You think I should be penalized because I worked and still work my fucking ass off. Give me a break.

Then you have a serious problem with the United States income tax law (and that of 99% of the countries in the world) which calls for a progressive income tax. How progressive is up for debate. But it sounds like you are against the idea of a progressive tax in general.

Even the proposed "flat tax" system is progressive in that it allows the first $30k or so of income to be tax free.

Be happy that you live at a time when the highest tax bracket is the lowest of any time in our country's history since the income tax was started. There were times when the highest tax bracket was as high as 94% (during WWII). In fact, from the time of WWII until the early 1980s, the highest tax bracket never dipped below 70%. Now it is half of that. Do you think the trend towards an increasing smaller percentage of the population controlling an ever increasing percentage of the total wealth in recent years has anything to do with that?

When you cut the amount of tax being paid by the wealthy, the end result is that you increase the amount paid by the lower class. The Republicans usually get around this by saying they will simply cut spending. But when they cut spending, it always starts with items that fall under the category of "state aid". That then results in the states increasing taxes to make up for their budget gap, and the taxes that are usually raised are sales tax, which is a regressive tax (the opposite of progressive, i.e. poor people pay a higher percentage of their income than wealthy people).

For the bottom 20% of Americans, their tax burden has increased under this president. They all received rather tiny (around $100-200) tax rebates, and their local income taxes then rose by 1-2%.

If the Republicans are going to say that we are in a time of war, then the upper class should be taxed like they have been in previous wars.

Conservatives like to say that the country has gone to hell in recent years and that things were better back in the 1940s & 1950s. If that is so, then let's bring back the income tax code of the 1950s. The highest tax bracket back then was 91%.

And BTW, if you saved $60k due to a 3.6% decrease in the tax on your income above $300k, then I certainly do not feel bad for you. You are in the top 0.1% of Americans. Who I feel bad for are the 20% of American children that live below the poverty line. The poverty line means that a family of 4 lives on less than $19k per year (gross income before taxes).

E61Silver · #2 11-09-2006, 01:22 AM

The Income tax currently helps people were the cost of living is low.

I live in NYC and the cost of real estate together with local taxes cause the ATM tax to hit me.

If you lived in the Mid west the cost of living is lower and local taxes are less.

I think the Income Tax should take into account the cost of living.

ylwjacket · #3 11-09-2006, 02:12 PM

OK, time to weigh in on some things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6to

The Result of Yesterday's mid-term elections in the U.S. is seen by the majority of the World's population outside the US as a Great Achievement

Who the hell cares? That is about as arrogant of a statement as I have ever heard. It is entirely condescending and offensive, along the lines of "it's about time you morons woke up". We can run our own country, thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifly

I agree with Juan that the message from the electorate was;

IT AIN'T WORKING PAL, LETS TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

Right, wrong, or otherwise, this is exactly what happened. Those in power had it coming - they fell on the sword of their own arrogance, and we will all have to live with it. Part of what makes us the greatest country on earth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

All that needs to be said has been said, the repubs suck, they failed, its time for a new representation, change is good, nuff said

I don't get it, we should do just that, admit we were wrong, WHICH we were, Get the heck out because they HATE us and get on with it, why is it so hard for us to admit we failed? Its simple, get out, leave, go home, done, who friggin cares what happens after we leave, we dug our own grave on this one, thats why I do NOT support our president because he does not share my views, his government does not represent me one bit

Your political views are too immature to warrant comment. Grow up, then come back, and maybe we'll listen. Until then, save it for you immature drinking buddies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious Joel

I agree with those of us ............. I may be too optimistic, but.. We shall see.
Just my $0.02

Very mature, and impressive CJ. Nice post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINANM3

I have a serious problem with # 2. Im in that tax bracket.
Why should I pay a higher percent in Taxes than anyone else. Its not fair. I worked extremely hard to get to where I am and why should I be penalized for it. I put almost 20 years of schooling to get my double business degree and MBA. I put in 60 to 80 hours of work in a week every week. Why do I have to pay more taxes than anyone else does. Its bullshit. You think I should be penalized because I worked and still work my fucking ass off. Give me a break.

I could not agree more. I own a small business. To start it, I risked everything I and my family was worth. If it failed (or fails - always a possibility), my family would live in a cardboard box. I borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars beyond what I was worth. Those of you who have not done it can not possibly relate to the tremendous responsibility that comes with risking it all for a dream.

So, my reward for working my ass off, making it successful, taking a huge personal risk, and employing a staff of 30 with an average wage of about $80k is higher personal income taxes?

Me and my family consume hardly any government services. I provide an annual payroll of several million dollars. I provide excellent medical insurance to my staff, and me and my staff give back to our community.

Someone smarter than me has to explain how it is fair that I should have to pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes given the above.

I can assure you, my government bleeds me plenty.

All of the above is before you figure in taxes my business pays, homeowners taxes, sales taxes, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

And BTW, if you saved $60k due to a 3.6% decrease in the tax on your income above $300k, then I certainly do not feel bad for you. You are in the top 0.1% of Americans. Who I feel bad for are the 20% of American children that live below the poverty line. The poverty line means that a family of 4 lives on less than $19k per year (gross income before taxes).

That is crass and arrogant. How dare you or anyone say it is fair to provide additional penalties, solely because someone else is successful. This is America - not communist N. Korea or China.

I too worry about my fellow Americans living at the poverty line. Me and my company provides any number of charitable donations, in time and money, scholarships, etc, to try to help alleviate those conditions as best as we can. In addition, our people are paid well, have excellent health, life, and disability insurance (all at nominal or no cost), and get matching contributions to an excellent 401k plan. We contribute substantially to the local economy.

No one - Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or anyone else, can tell me I need to pay more to do more for the country.

If I wanted, I could milk my staff for more hours, pay them less, make them pay for health care, and make a lot more money. I choose to earn less to do the right thing.

If my taxes rise substantially, because someone thinks anyone in the top 1% should pay more, then it will affect my ability to fund scholarships, give to groups like the United Way, donate to the public shools, fund relief efforts, etc, etc.

Is that what you really want?

Eric, or anyone, who is going to make an assanine statement like that needs to spend some time in someone else's shoes first.

Eric5273 · #4 11-09-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

That is crass and arrogant. How dare you or anyone say it is fair to provide additional penalties, solely because someone else is successful. This is America - not communist N. Korea or China.

I too worry about my fellow Americans living at the poverty line. Me and my company provides any number of charitable donations, in time and money, scholarships, etc, to try to help alleviate those conditions as best as we can

Then those donations are deductable from your taxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

If my taxes rise substantially, because someone thinks anyone in the top 1% should pay more, then it will affect my ability to fund scholarships, give to groups like the United Way, donate to the public shools, fund relief efforts, etc, etc.

Is that what you really want?

Unfortunately, most of that top 1% are not nearly as generous as you. Much of them are like the WalMart owners who do not provide any benefits to their employees and barely pay more than minimum wage.

But that is not really the issue here....

There should not be a need for private charities and scholarships. The reason those things are needed is because our government has failed us.

I want you to look at this from another perspective for a moment:

Imagine that our government failed to provide a proper military and police force, so that most Americans were not protected from foreign invasion, terrorism, or even crime.

Then seperate communities could raise their own money to fund private militias and security forces to protect their own neighborhoods. The poorer neighborhoods would not be able to do this, and thus would not be protected.

So then we could have charities that raise money to fund private militias and security forces for the poor neighborhoods, but as we all know there would not be enough money raised to provide for everyone.

How does that system sound to you? I'm inclined to think you would be in favor of it since it would save you tax money. After all, what right do these poor people have to security paid for by your tax money, since they don't pay as much taxes?

But alternatively, if you are against such a system and you do like the current system where the government taxes the people and provides security for all Americans, then why are you against the government providing services to protect all Americans in other ways like with Health Care, Education (there would be no need private scholorships), and making sure people have food to eat? Why is protecting people from attack and crime more important than protecting them from sickness and starvation?

Then there would be no need for private charities. The fact that we need private charities shows that our government has failed us.

bjo · #5 11-09-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Why is protecting people from attack and crime more important than protecting them from sickness and starvation?

Then there would be no need for private charities. The fact that we need private charities shows that our government has failed us.

Sounds Socialist or Communist to me

rayxi · #6 11-09-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjo

Sounds Socialist or Communist to me

Some view protecting members of society from sickness and starvation to be a moral obligation not a political doctrine. I guess you aren't one of them.

6to · #7 11-09-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

OK, time to weigh in on some things.

Originally Posted by 6to
The Result of Yesterday's mid-term elections in the U.S. is seen by the majority of the World's population outside the US as a Great Achievement

Who the hell cares? That is about as arrogant of a statement as I have ever heard. It is entirely condescending and offensive, along the lines of "it's about time you morons woke up". We can run our own country, thank you.

Who the hell cares??? (now WHO's being arrogant here??) Quite Obviously, YOU certainly don't give a damn, or failed to understand. You and all Americans that I simply meant to Honestly Congratulate with this comment should care. Let me rephrase it in other words for you: What happened on Tuesday is indeed a great achievement that solidifies the ideal that Democracy - albeit full of shortcomings - is sometimes a wonderful thing (when it really works) - like it did in Tuesday. It's something to be genuinely proud of, and it's great to see happen. By anyone in the planet. It was also a great achievement since it weakened a powerhouse with an agenda capable of endangering the entire planet. So you see, it's not a question of being able to run your own Country. The many issues that go way beyond US borders, are Everyone's Concern.

Eric5273 · #8 11-09-2006, 06:54 PM

A great American once said:

"Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet. We all breath the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

Somehow in the last few years this logic has been replaced with "Who the hell cares what the rest of the world thinks".

fln8tive · #9 11-10-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6to

What happened on Tuesday is indeed a great achievement that solidifies the ideal that Democracy - albeit full of shortcomings - is sometimes a wonderful thing...It was also a great achievement since it weakened a powerhouse with an agenda capable of endangering the entire planet.

This clarifies...it was also my initial impression that the rest of the world was crowing about the election. We felt the same way when we saw the Iraqis going to vote. I will challenge the suggestion that the election "weakened" anything though. The Dems now get to hold the tiger by the tail. Stay tuned.