Whoops...hybrids blow... - Page 3

JCL · #21 07-18-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5FX

I think this is very misleading info. seriously, have you ever actually driven a vehicle more than 100,000 miles.
Hybrids release up to 80% less emissions, does the technology consume that much more energy. I think you are basing this on a flurry of very misleading info that has been exposed.

Not sure I see the connection to how long I drive my cars. Every car I have purchased in the last 30 years has gone on to do your 100,000 miles. Why is it significant whether I drove it myself?

Hybid emissions aren't the topic at hand, it is about the energy consumed by a hybrid vehicle. Follow the lead back to the mine and through the smelter. Calculate the energy used by those that produce in another country because of the energy required to get the car to market. Consider the energy that goes into producing aluminum. We should think about total energy, not how much it costs to fill the tank.

Anyway, the magic solution isn't hydrogen, hybrid, or whatever. It is to drive less. Sorry if that isn't as glamorous, but it is a pretty straightforward solution.

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X5FX · #22 07-18-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresch

The Hummer analogy is a bit of a stretch I think, but the amount of energy and resources it takes to make the batteries for a Hybrid need to be considered as does how it will be disposed of when it hits EOL. Let's see the greenies explain what they're going to do with hundreds of thousands of those batteries in 3 - 5 years.

That being said, I'm really liking the Tahoe Hybrid coming out at the end of the year....

Yea, thats what I say...it was a flurry of propaganda that came out a few months ago...it has since been exposed. Look at the link I posted above.

Thunder22 · #23 07-18-2007, 10:38 PM

this will most probably be my next DD:

http://www.automobilemag.com/future_..._tahoe_hybrid/

X5FX · #24 07-18-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

Not sure I see the connection to how long I drive my cars. Every car I have purchased in the last 30 years has gone on to do your 100,000 miles. Why is it significant whether I drove it myself?

Hybid emissions aren't the topic at hand, it is about the energy consumed by a hybrid vehicle. Follow the lead back to the mine and through the smelter. Calculate the energy used by those that produce in another country because of the energy required to get the car to market. Consider the energy that goes into producing aluminum. We should think about total energy, not how much it costs to fill the tank.

Anyway, the magic solution isn't hydrogen, hybrid, or whatever. It is to drive less. Sorry if that isn't as glamorous, but it is a pretty straightforward solution.

well thats how they justify the prius vs hummer theory. They were using numbers for the Hybrid EOL at 100k and Hummer EOL at 400k miles. This is how they came up with the statement that Hummers are more eco friendly...its BS

X5FX · #25 07-18-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automoti...%20VERSION.pdf

exactly...did you read it?
Hummer 380,000 miles
Prius 109,000 miles

they based the cost on the Hummer driving nearly 4X the miles...WTF

Its called propaganda.

JCL · #26 07-18-2007, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5FX

well thats how they justify the prius vs hummer theory. They were using numbers for the Hybrid EOL at 100k and Hummer EOL at 400k miles. This is how they came up with the statement that Hummers are more eco friendly...its BS

You are focusing on one example, the Hummer vs Pious, and not addressing the broader issues. Personally I think the Hummer is a silly vehicle, so it gets no points from me. I do think that comparisons of the Accord vs Accord Hybrid, Civic vs Civic Hybrid, Echo vs Prius, are more valid. Throwing out the entire concept of the study because you think the hybrid will run longer to EOL than they do doesn't seem logical to me.

The propaganda you refer to is more in the public press headlines and less in the data itself. I think people should read the data and draw their own conclusions.

Yes, I read it.

X5FX · #27 07-19-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

You are focusing on one example, the Hummer vs Pious, and not addressing the broader issues. Personally I think the Hummer is a silly vehicle, so it gets no points from me. I do think that comparisons of the Accord vs Accord Hybrid, Civic vs Civic Hybrid, Echo vs Prius, are more valid. Throwing out the entire concept of the study because you think the hybrid will run longer to EOL than they do doesn't seem logical to me.

The propaganda you refer to is more in the public press headlines and less in the data itself. I think people should read the data and draw their own conclusions.

Yes, I read it.

No, im not focusing on it...thats where I jumped into this conversation (post 5).

The propganda is the original report...their data is tilted to look like they want it to look. The facts are right there.

JCL · #28 07-19-2007, 01:01 AM

I agree completely with you that the Hummer example is silly. However, you are not acknowledging the point that batteries take energy to produce and are a disposal challenge. Think of the product lifecycle costs to society, not the cost to fill a tank each Friday. Hybrids may make sense for delivery vehicles or city buses, but as commuter cars they are being vastly oversold. Good thing the market is figuring that out, and self-correcting. Just wait for the battery replacement cycle when it hits over the next few years.

Now, you think all this is propaganda, but that hydrogen is going to save us?

X5FX · #29 07-19-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

I agree completely with you that the Hummer example is silly. However, you are not acknowledging the point that batteries take energy to produce and are a disposal challenge. Think of the product lifecycle costs to society, not the cost to fill a tank each Friday. Hybrids may make sense for delivery vehicles or city buses, but as commuter cars they are being vastly oversold. Good thing the market is figuring that out, and self-correcting. Just wait for the battery replacement cycle when it hits over the next few years.

Now, you think all this is propaganda, but that hydrogen is going to save us?

Anytime we can reduce our dependence on oil, the very oil we are buying from the terrorists that are killing our sons and daughters...YES!!