Bullying - Parents only- request advice....

LVR · #1 03-09-2008, 11:06 AM

Ok

I'm sitting here right now and my wife an I have had a huge spat...

Yesterday, my 4 year old had some mates over who, when on their own play really well, but when the 3 of them are together one of them is a ringleader and bully's my son.

I have spent 4 years teaching my son respect of other people and shut down any aggresive or rough house tactics with my boy. SOOOO many people remark on how polite he is and how well mannered my son is. He is easily the best mannered child at pre-school.

My boy takes it is his stride and continues to play, but yesterday when all three were on the trampoline, the two others ganged up to push my boy around and when they fell over to pin him down.

This morning I woke up and taught him how to escape being pinned down and my next lesson is (having seen what is going on) how to do a 'takedown'

This afternoon we had been invited over to some friends place for a few brewski's (the parents of the second child of the 3) and as soon as we got there our son would not get involved, would not go in the pool with all the boys and stayed right away from the playing. I now know it is because he saw the bully. I kept asking him to go and play with his mates and he would not.

We were all having a few drinks and I went out to see what was happening in the front yard as that was where the kids were (secured). Myself and the father of the second child were chatting and I looked up to see my son, (although he is bigger he is 8 months younger and not used to rough and tumble as he is an only child) on his knees having a football smacked into his head repeatedly by the bully.

I stepped in and scolded the young boof who immediately stopped. I am enraged as a parent to see my child being pushed around as I have taught him respect and not to strike out.

We have gotten home and my wife (who is very close to the mother of the bully), and I have had a huge row over my son. I have told her that either she informs the mother (who has already been spoken to by the school about her son) tomorrow morning exactly what is going on (at the expense of thier friendship) or I will teach my son to put the other child on his arse.

My wife is extremely loving and protective of our son, but she does not seem to see what is happening as it is a friend and 'boys will be boys'.

I on the other hand am extremely angry and now understand why my son will not go into group playing/rough house.

The amazing thing is, all the kids want to play with my son and the mothers ring up to arrange play dates.

I have told my wife that either she speaks with her friend first thing in the morning at school or I am going around to their house to point out what is happening and inform them that if he does not desist I will teach my son to be offensive.

I know there are lots of parents out there...please offer advice.....

Cheers

John

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dr.jay · #2 03-09-2008, 12:08 PM

I'm not a parent but when I was about 11 or 12 I had a bully problem, and my father taught me something I still carry with me today. Left jab right cross combo, get's them every time lol

tuan · #3 03-09-2008, 12:08 PM

John, I don't have any kids so I can't offer any advice. IMO, you're teaching your son the same way I was raised, and it's to respect others. I was pretty scrawny in my youth so my parents took me to t'aekwŏndo. There I learned to defend myself. Size is not always important. With the right kind of training, your son can build self confidence and learn to defend himself.

primetime · #4 03-09-2008, 12:47 PM

Teach him to put that other kid on his ass..Regardless of what happens..if he doesn't end up using it on him. He'll need the knowledge for later when he gets older..Teach him anyway, as a safety precaution...

statdoc · #5 03-09-2008, 12:53 PM

LVR, you are trying to teach your son social skills that are too advanced for his age. "Lord of the Flies". You have created a situation where he is prey. What you view as "good manners" and "politeness", is viewed by the other children as weakness.

A tale: When my son was 7, he was already a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. He came home one Sunday afternoon sniffling, and some questioning revealed two brothers down the street had been picking on him, and knocked him off his bicycle. When I asked if he had done anything to provoke it, he said the boys were jealous of his new bike. I asked what he did in response; he ran away. He was afraid he would "get in trouble" if he had a fight (something taught all the children in school, to ensure tranquility).

I told my son he would definitely be in trouble with me if he started a fight. He would be in equal trouble in the future if I discovered he had allowed someone to abuse him without aggressive response. I explained that if someone views you as a target, they will attack you. If you have a reputation of "don't mess with that boy", you rarely have to fight. Peace through strength, per the late President Ronald Reagan.

A couple weeks later, my son comes home with a smile on his face. This time, when the neighbor brothers attacked him, he responded with an appropriate level of force. They both ran away, and my son has never had to have a fight with local boys again; word spreads quickly (he will soon be 14). He and those brothers are friends, but peers who understand neither should be considered prey.

MrLabGuy · #6 03-09-2008, 02:08 PM

This is a tough one I'm sure I'm going to face at some point. My son is 16 months old and is lagging behind on the height scale. As things look he won't be the shortest in his class but he will be below average at the current growth rate.

That said your son being 4 years old is at a difficult crossroads. He is at the point where he is experiencing fear, anger and frustration but does not understand how to deal with these complex emotions. He understands rules and the concept of rules and looks for approval from others. His response to this situation may be some confusion about your rules of being polite and his looking for your approval and thus the passivity.

The tricky part is dealing with his limited understanding so be careful how you proceed. Understand that being picked on can lead to future self esteem and confidence issues. Teaching him to solve his social issues with violence can have negative effects as well. I would start by talking to him alone and get a gage of how he perceives this behavior from the other boys. I would encourage him to talk with you or your wife if he is having difficulty or if he is feeling threatened. I would also encourage you to speak with the bully's parents about their sons behavior and inform them that you will not tolerate unacceptable or dangerous play.

One other difficult issue here is your feelings about this incident. You need to determine how you really feel and make sure you are not overreacting out of a feeling of pride or shame. Sometimes it is difficult to see your son being less dominate and that feeling causes you to react. This may be a learning experience for your son and given some time he may learn to work this out on his own. I would observe this interaction for a bit longer and look for patterns before I would react.

Lastly...Teach your son respect, not only for others but respect for himself. If he feels threatened or uncomfortable he has the right to say NO. Walking away is the best policy; however, this could also be construed by the bullies as a sign of weakness. That is where things get even more tricky. This is why it is best to talk with your son and get his feelings about the situation. If you build on his self esteem and confidence he will come out just fine.

Good luck,

vinuneuro · #7 03-09-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statdoc

I told my son he would definitely be in trouble with me if he started a fight. He would be in equal trouble in the future if I discovered he had allowed someone to abuse him without aggressive response. I explained that if someone views you as a target, they will attack you. If you have a reputation of "don't mess with that boy", you rarely have to fight. Peace through strength, per the late President Ronald Reagan.

x100000% with everything statdoc posted . I believe this is what is called Balance.

John, I was raised the way you're raising your son and found myself in his position growing up well past the age he's at now. Believe me in that it will be a lot easier for you to instill in him what statdoc advocates, now, than for your son to have to figure it out on his own later on. Because bullies 1 and 2 will certainly manifest themselves in other kids down the road.

Quicksilver · #8 03-09-2008, 08:31 PM

Talk it over with your wife again and KINDLY point out your concerns. Then listen to hers again. Explain that you could teach your son to punch out the other kids but this is not the correct answer.

The proper answer in my view is speak to the other parents in a kind way about your observations and ask for their suggestions regarding how they would proceed. This will give them an chance to take part in the solution. If they don't see, or wish to resolve the problem, then politely refrain from allowing your children to associate with the other children until they teach their children some manners. (The key here is be kind)

The other parents may not share your concern or even view it as a problem. The point is though "you do" and they should respect that. If they don't then you know where you stand with those parents and you have a choice to make regarding how you wish to continue the relationship. But refrain from threatening the other parents with "I will teach my son to be offensive." That will only exasperate the problem and will solve nothing.

5 grand children later and a host of other young folks hanging around thru the years has made for some interesting decision making along the way and i can tell you for sure the calm logical approach is the best way. Anyone who can't accept that approach you need to dismiss from your life. Anything else will bear nothing but bitter fruit.

Regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVR

I have told my wife that either she speaks with her friend first thing in the morning at school or I am going around to their house to point out what is happening and inform them that if he does not desist I will teach my son to be offensive.

I know there are lots of parents out there...please offer advice.....

Cheers

John

x5GuyInLA · #9 03-10-2008, 01:39 AM

not a parent, but there were a few bullies around when I was growing up. I completely agree with Statdoc; appropriate force when provoked is necessary. I remember 2 instances where I was being badgered by these bullies. in one instance, I was being chased on the playground when i suddenly turned around and kneed the kid in the nuts. the other (with another bully), we were standing in line waiting to have our work checked. my back was towards the bully and he was flicking my ear. the next time he came close, I kicked him in the nuts. needless to say, they didn't bother me after that. just a couple of my experiences with a bully.

LVR · #10 03-10-2008, 02:25 AM

Thanks for the words of wisdom folks.

This morning my wife and the mother (who go running together) had a chat before doing anything. The other mother apologised and it seems the child has already had both school and parent counselling previously. She was aghast that her son was being so vicious and he is going to have a period of no friends around.

Today was my turn at school parent duty (helping out in the playground and activities) so it was good to see what was happening out in the yard. My son played with his mates fine and there was no cause for me to be worried about him. The other boy was chastised for pushing and punching another child by the teacher, so it appears that the larger group is less of a problem.

I did notice that the other boy and a few of his mates were tormenting one of the girls, but then lose interest when she continued playing with her girlfriends.

My wife and I have spoken at length, about our points of view, complaints from other mothers about the same boy etc. She has informed her friend that we are considering teaching our son to properly defend himself, in Tae Kwon Do 3-6 year old classes. My wife has also informed the teacher that this is our solution. We are fortunate enough in that all the parents are quite open and talk together and all the mothers of the boys involved have spoken to each other several times today..... I am sure if my son oversteps the mark we will be told, however I hope that he has learnt respect enough in our home environment. The mother of the bully seemed to think he needed a bit of his own medicine...

Having re-read my original post, I can see my anger in threatening to teach my son to be offensive, however that is not what we are about and think we have dealt with it properly. We will assess what is happening and how he plays one on one with some of the other boys before we commit on self defence classes.

I know the difference between just rough house and being nasty. When my son had fallen over on the trampoline, to see him trying to get up while another child was punching him over the head and face with a football is not called for and is a picture no parent wishes to see. That's not my ego, indignity or whatever. It is a parent nipping the problem in the bud because we are aware of his environment.

If my child had been the aggressor I would have been on his case quick. I agree with the viewpoint that my son would be in trouble for fighting, but I will also emphasise that defending yourself is ok.

Thanks

John

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