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  #51  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayxi
So based on this statement you are agaist the goverment having any animal cruelty laws then? Let the moronic minority who organize dog fights do what they want? For the record, I'm pretty sure your answer is no. I'm merely pointing out the similarities in the situations where governement should take a stand.
You are making this out to be a very "black & white" issue, which it is not. I think everyone, including Wagner, agrees that you have to draw the line somewhere between what is personal responsibility and what should be legislated by the government. I think he simply draws the line in a different place than you do. And I also think that everyone participating in this debate would agree that this issue is awfully close to where you would draw your line, regardless of which side of the line you think this issue is on.
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  #52  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
Chalk this thread up as an anomaly.....

We have Wagner taking the conservative/libertarian position, while MrLabGuy takes the liberal/"big government" position. What will the world come to next....
Yeah...I feel all icky! I'm going to go take a shower now and watch some Fox News afterward.
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  #53  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
Chalk this thread up as an anomaly.....

We have Wagner taking the conservative/libertarian position, while MrLabGuy takes the liberal/"big government" position. What will the world come to next....
Here's to you Eric

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  #54  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
You are making this out to be a very "black & white" issue, which it is not. I think everyone, including Wagner, agrees that you have to draw the line somewhere between what is personal responsibility and what should be legislated by the government. I think he simply draws the line in a different place than you do. And I also think that everyone participating in this debate would agree that this issue is awfully close to where you would draw your line, regardless of which side of the line you think this issue is on.
I have this naive faith that the humans actually have brains and don't need to be led like sheep......maybe I'm wrong. Since the majority of intelligent individuals here are disagreeing with me.

Guess it goes to that whole "Sheppard & flock" thing.
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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  #55  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Wagner
I have this naive faith that the humans actually have brains
Having a brains and using them are two different things. The world if full of idiots and thus full of laws.

Let's just remove all speed limits with the understanding that people will do the right thing for the good of society. Laws provide structure and punish those who refuse to think beyond their own selfish needs and desires.

Your Utopian society is a long way away. Just watch a few YouTube videos.
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  #56  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MrLabGuy
Having a brains and using them are two different things. The world if full of idiots and thus full of laws.

Let's just remove all speed limits with the understanding that people will do the right thing for the good of society. Laws provide structure and punish those who refuse to think beyond their own selfish needs and desires.

Your Utopian society is a long way away. Just watch a few YouTube videos.

WTF?? My Utopian society...back away from the bong

I'm the anti-Utopia (just ask Eric).

I guess we should also put warning labels on knives since a parent might stab their child with one.....


I guess Thomas Jefferson summed this up well:

Quote:
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
BTW: most people don't obey the speed limit
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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Last edited by Wagner; 04-13-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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  #57  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
You are making this out to be a very "black & white" issue, which it is not. I think everyone, including Wagner, agrees that you have to draw the line somewhere between what is personal responsibility and what should be legislated by the government. I think he simply draws the line in a different place than you do. And I also think that everyone participating in this debate would agree that this issue is awfully close to where you would draw your line, regardless of which side of the line you think this issue is on.
I agree with that statement. My position is that the line needs to be drawn such that we don't rely on personal responsibility when it comes to harming the innocent and the helpless.
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  #58  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wagner
Good Lord, why do people make it an ALL or NOTHING argument? Is it too complex to figure out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner
I guess we should also put warning labels on knives since a parent might stab their child with one.....
Now who's the one making it an ALL or NOTHING issue?
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  #59  
Old 04-13-2008, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rayxi
Now who's the one making it an ALL or NOTHING issue?
Just following the rest of the sheep.
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"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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