Apparently both parties underestimated each other, The RR driver didn't think it would be a problem for him to get in the mix of the riders, and probably figure "they'll move" and well... they didn't , this is what agitated them to begin with , they wanted to own the HWY.

The Rider(s) saw him as an easy target for abuse and figure "what is he gonna do?" calling police and filling a report was not an option, most where unlicensed, unregistered Bikes and Riders. so messing with the asian guy was their "thrill" for the day.

all the speculations as to what happen? well it was a D1ck measuring contest where they all lost.

now as to what would we do in a similar situation, well it depends really... one thing is for sure if the RR driver would have started knocking down bikers along the way it wouldn't have made him any different than them. he just wanted to get his family to a populated location so they had a better chance.

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Interesting to watch this unfold...in media and opinions.

While it is easy to call them thugs and a mob, the legal question is more nuanced. Specifically is the range rover driver criminally or civilly responsible for the injuries Miezes suffered? As pointed out above he was not the guy that started it (ie 'brake check guy).. so what is his responsibility?

Points to consider:

He didnt have a license
He has over 15 citations on record.
he was wearing a mask to hide his identify
Reportedly plate removed from the bike.

Does he have a history of participating with such a pack? did he know what was likely to be done during the even?

Clearly after the incident, when Miezes was run over, the acts of the mob became physical and agrgessive and the driver had a right to defend himself...but at the point he bumped into the one bike, and others began attacking the car, it will be argued miezies was an innocent bystander.

There is an interesting nuance- that Leiu made a bit of an aggressive move- he honked when cut off, and the brake check guy decided 'yeah, we're gonna stop him'. It was a small challenge, but part of the cascade.

Anyway, when does the 'gang' become 'one' and the actions for one agaisnt you can be retailiated agaisnt with a strike agaisnt any of them? Conceptually it is easy- and with the comments above it is clear how some might react. But what if a biker said 'this guy was running over bikers so I called 911 and followed behind him to report to police- when all of a sudden he reversed up the off ramp and ran me over".

anyway, going to be interesting...

A

PS
I once got into it with another car, I was driving a rental. Ultimately I realized he was trying to ram me. It is actually quite hard to avoid immediate challeneges (other cars, him, traffic controls) but also make plans not to get 'trapped'....wild u turns, through parking lot, etc.... But in a panic, your brain shuts down, you are forced to make decisions in areas that you've never considered... Hence an interesting discussion to have...

AVB, think about it, do you carry a weapon? Probably not. Most of us in NYC cannot carry a weapon. Shit, just getting a fire arm, in your house is insane tough here. I certainly don't carry. But I bet you there were more than a few thugs in that crowd that did have a gun. I would not want to find out if anyone of them would try to shoot me.

So yesterday on the news. Cops have now pulled over 300 bikers. They have photographed and cataloged every single one. They also IDed the dude bashing the car with the helmet, and expect him to turn himself in.

The RR driver also called the cops once. The wife called the cops 3 times. They have no clue why the bikers chose to mess with them. I have a feeling to get paid when an RR hits you.

That day, the bikers were all over the city. Police have received 200 calls that day from all over the city for bikers driving on sidewalks, stopping traffic, disobeying the laws and disturbing the peace. 15 arrest made that day. Yea great for the people that want to enjoy a ride and not be classified as part of those idiots.

I just want to put up a huge middle finger to all of them in that mob. Thanks to these idiots I am seriously thinking it's time to part with my bike. I can only imagine the millions of Cage drivers that are now going to screw with every sports bike out there.

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AVB, think about it, do you carry a weapon? Probably not. Most of us in NYC cannot carry a weapon. Shit, just getting a fire arm, in your house is insane tough here. I certainly don't carry. But I bet you there were more than a few thugs in that crowd that did have a gun. I would not want to find out if anyone of them would try to shoot me.

So yesterday on the news. Cops have now pulled over 300 bikers. They have photographed and cataloged every single one. They also IDed the dude bashing the car with the helmet, and expect him to turn himself in.

The RR driver also called the cops once. The wife called the cops 3 times. They have no clue why the bikers chose to mess with them. I have a feeling to get paid when an RR hits you.

That day, the bikers were all over the city. Police have received 200 calls that day from all over the city for bikers driving on sidewalks, stopping traffic, disobeying the laws and disturbing the peace. 15 arrest made that day. Yea great for the people that want to enjoy a ride and not be classified as part of those idiots.

I just want to put up a huge middle finger to all of them in that mob. Thanks to these idiots I am seriously thinking it's time to part with my bike. I can only imagine the millions of Cage drivers that are now going to screw with every sports bike out there.

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SlickGT!:

I see that you felt so strongly about your points that you said them twice

Your assumption is correct, I do not own any guns.....
Yet as a young teenager I was on a couple of rifle teams (22's) and became a NRA-registered expert marksman, shooting at paper targets. While I am not a hunter, I appreciate the sporting aspect of gun use and ownership in this country. Yet I also believe that the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment has been grossly misinterpreted by many in this country, warping its original intention by our founding fathers, to rationalize and justify the "right" to own semi-assault weapons and large capacity magazine clips. While I believe this is foolish and wrong, it is currently legal in many states.

Too many people, motivated by fear, have purchased guns legally with the stated purpose for possible protection. That is their right, however flawed you or I may think it is.

But this thread is not about gun rights, so let me get back to the point I made in an earlier post. For anyone to say they would consciously use their vehicle as a weapon, to consciously hurt any of these swarming motorcyclists, they would have had to have "snapped", lost all rational decision-making ability. They would no longer be fearful of any sort of retaliatory actions by the bikers, including the very real possibility of one or more of them pulling out a gun and using it. This form of Road Rage, has happened before in this country and I wonder if it will start to occur more frequently.....???
Also, it can work both ways, as reminded in the scene from the movie EASY RIDER.

I appreciate your concern that a few "bad apples" of cyclist can tar and feather the perceptions of many people, to the point that it diminishes your joy and satisfaction of riding your motorcycle. That is a shame but certainly understandable.

It has been my experience as a NJ resident who commutes M-F by car into Manhattan, that many motorcyclists disobey a number of traffic laws. Most commonly it is when vehicles are in stop-and-go traffic leading into the Lincoln or Holland Tunnels and the cyclists just drive between the two lanes of stopped cars in order to get farther ahead.

Then once in the City, we drivers now have to be extra cautious to drive and gingerly navigate alongside and around the many new bicyclists riding on the streets. Most of them are either clueless about traffic laws or just decide to disregard them entirely, by riding through red lights, ignoring designated bike lanes, let alone riding without any helmet.

But that is what driving in NYC is all about today....

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My current & recent car history:
2020 BMW 440i xDrive Coupe (Wife's daily driver)
2016 BMW X5M (My daily driver)
2014 BMW M6 Coupe (gone)
2013 BWM 335i xDrive Coupe (gone)
2011 BMW 335xi turbo coupe (gone)
2007 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (gone)
2007 BMW 335ci twin turbo coupe (gone)
2004 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG (gone)
2004 BMW X5 4.4i (w/full Aero Kit - gone)
2001 BMW X5 4.4i (w/full Aero Kit - gone)
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 Sport (gone)
1961 Mercedes-Benz 190SL (owned for 48 years)

As part of my employment, we are undergoing through some driving technique training... My agency is not charged with attacking, or pursuing bad guys (some sections actually are), we are in business of protection, so we are "designed" to flee a scene... They teach us how to throw a car in reverse, back out of a blocked road, do a J-turn and take off, they showed us how to properly ram a car that is blocking your way to escape the harm... The more important thing about the training, not just the physical ability to execute those actions but the mental preparedness to encounter such a thing...

As I drive, I treat my daily commute and leisure trips as a walk on a wild side, when something can and will happen... If I were driving the RR, i would have tried to avoid the damage and injuries but my paramount goal would have been to protect the welfare of the child and spouse, and i would have treated anyone outside of the vehicle as a potential threat, regardless if the person was a simple bystander or whatnot - if the person was in close proximity to my conveyance, he is a threat and should be dealt with accordingly... if the guy ended up under the RR as the SUV moved forward, it is clear that the guy was deliberately blocking the path of a moving vehicle in order to assist his accomplices in inflicting harm to the RR driver and passenger - does anyone here think that the bikers stopped the vehicle to offer ice cream to the kid and flowers to the lady???.

Self-defense is clear here...

Boom well said.

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Suzuki GSXR bikes. Now have a 1k GSXR, 2012. I went away from the flashy looking bikes. Used to have a telefonica, and alstare, corona 1k, blue and whites. This one is all black, trying to stay under the radar. Even stock pipe. Only places I manage to enjoy it though is in NJ and PA. I can't find shit in the city with enough twists. Now these biker gangs making a bad rep for us, is gonna suck. I just feel it, people already hate us, this is going to make it worse. The cops are of no help either. Until they pull you over and find out you are all legit, you are squid.

NYC gun laws. NYC has the strict ass laws. Forget about carry. Not going to happen unless you have some serious connection or an undeniable need to have one. As far as transporting the gun, same as you.

I will never be able to get a CCW licence in NYC. I didn't even get my small arms licence yet. I only have the rifle currently.

I agree with you on everything though.

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"The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes." - Mark Twain

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Yeah NJ is same with CCW licence, "have to demonstrate need" which basically means unless you are retired cop, work as a PI, or are a woman who has restraining orders out, you can't get it. So although we have the "opportunity", both states really have no chance for the average law abiding citizen/gun owner.

I could never be licenced to conceal carry either, too bad I didn't take a career in law enforcement (I tried for a couple years but gave up bc being a cop in NJ takes a lot of ass kissing for a lot of years and is a very political process).


And i'm fairly certain NY is same as NJ for handguns, but each time you want to buy a handgun in NJ you have to actually have applied for a PPP (pistol purchasers permit) and have one issued for each time you buy a handgun, and in the process they send out a letter to your employer and 3 references and have to get the paperwork back from them before they issue the permit. And the permit is good only for 90 days, renewable once, and you may only buy one handgun every 30 days legally. And once you buy a handgun, two copies of the permit have to be sent to the state, one to your municipality for their files and one to the NJSP for theirs.

Sound like NY? lol



And hey if you ever make it out my way in the Jerz and don't mind cruising around with a converted "power cruiser" guy, you can always hit me up for a ride on a nice day.

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