Gay marriage banned in Cali..

[blondboinsd]

Again, I don't find anything I said insulting. I think ANYONE who gave money to Prop 8 etc should be disgusted. How would you feel if someone voted on your marriage? I would LOVE to see someone change their hypocritical mind on this issue if they were directly in the firing line. Make me sick

I don't feel like I said anything insulting Yellow. If it's offensive to you I would ask why?

It's truth and NO don't pull the Domestic Partnerships are the same B*llshit, their not, never will be and are not federally recognized.

I hope the Prop 8 people are haunted by their vote and I have nothing but ill feeling towards them. Their not fellow California people or US Citizens. Their close-minded, uneducated rubbish.

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by FSETH

I think a lot of the animostiy is directed to Christian fanatics, not you personally. I consider myself to be Christian and I believe in God, but I don't go to church every Sunday and I don't go around telling people how they should live their lives (not saying you do either), but there are many Christian fanatics that belive the Bible literally word for word, think you have to go to church every single Sunday, think you have to pray before you eat every meal, think abortions are an outrage even in the case of incest and rape and so on. I am a Christian and those beliefs are not in-line with mine. IMO, religion is the primary cause for all war and terrorism throughout the world and I think that ALL fanatics regardless of religion are responsible. I think everyone needs to chill out to be honest with you.

I really feel that gay people are born that way and they should have the right to be married to a partner and share all of the legal benefits. If being gay is indeed something a person is born into and not a personal choice, then how can it be an abomination like many Christian fanatics say? They are human beings born into a situation that they can not control. Just like being born white, black, female, male and so on. What would happen if you had a gay son or grandson? Would you look them in the face and say you voted against their happiness and equal rights? I understand if you don't want to go out of your way to support gays and lesbians, that is your right, but why go to the polls just to deny them their happiness?

I agree, Fanatics of anything, INCLUDING Christian's are a menace to society, right wingers included!

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by lakai

Um ok.. so its clearly about money right ? because every discussion about this subject always starts about rights and ends up about taxes, benefits and social security payouts. So lets say prop 8 didn't pass. You still wouldn't be federally recognized anyways. Just my opinion.

P.S. I hear a lot of blaming people religion on the this and I don't see how you can really link this just on people who are religious. Same argument goes when Republicans are automatically labeled as religious nut jobs or whatever. I understand your anger but how does this help your cause ?

What on earth are you talking about? Marriage is Marriage, if I was married it would federally recognized. Their isn't a stance on the Federal level. They tried, but failed. So Yes, I would be.

[lakai]

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

Again, I don't find anything I said insulting. I think ANYONE who gave money to Prop 8 etc should be disgusted. How would you feel if someone voted on your marriage? I would LOVE to see someone change their hypocritical mind on this issue if they were directly in the firing line. Make me sick

I don't feel like I said anything insulting Yellow. If it's offensive to you I would ask why?

What you're saying doesn't make sense. You might not find what you say insulting, but others might. Have you thought about that? What about when someone uses a derogatory word or racial slur, would it be ok, just because they didn't personally find it insulting?

No, you are wrong about a marriage being federally recognized.

The Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, is the short title of a federal law of the United States passed on September 21, 1996 as Public Law No. 104-199, 110 Stat. 2419. Its provisions are codified at 1 U.S.C. § 7 and 28 U.S.C. § 1738C. The law has two effects:
No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state.
The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.
The bill was passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate[1] and a vote of 342-67 in the House of Representatives[2], and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by lakai

What you're saying doesn't make sense. You might not find what you say insulting, but others might. Have you thought about that? What about when someone uses a derogatory word or racial slur, would it be ok, just because they didn't personally find it insulting?

No, you are wrong about a marriage being federally recognized.

DOMA is on a state level. The DOMA is stating that no state that does not recognize same-sex marriage shall be forced to.

Ex: CA's DOMA was ruled unconstitutional overturning it and allowing same sex marriage earlier this year. MASS and CT have both ruled their DOMA was unconstitutional thus allowing same sex marriage.

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

I probably wouldn't have. However, I was there anyways for a bunch of other reasons.

To each his own, I suppose.

FSETH brought up some good points that you failed to address. I don't have any vested interest in this matter, but I'd love to hear your comments on the rest of this post.

Originally Posted by FSETH

I think a lot of the animostiy is directed to Christian fanatics, not you personally. I consider myself to be Christian and I believe in God, but I don't go to church every Sunday and I don't go around telling people how they should live their lives (not saying you do either), but there are many Christian fanatics that belive the Bible literally word for word, think you have to go to church every single Sunday, think you have to pray before you eat every meal, think abortions are an outrage even in the case of incest and rape and so on. I am a Christian and those beliefs are not in-line with mine. IMO, religion is the primary cause for all war and terrorism throughout the world and I think that ALL fanatics regardless of religion are responsible. I think everyone needs to chill out to be honest with you.

I really feel that gay people are born that way and they should have the right to be married to a partner and share all of the legal benefits. If being gay is indeed something a person is born into and not a personal choice, then how can it be an abomination like many Christian fanatics say? They are human beings born into a situation that they can not control. Just like being born white, black, female, male and so on. What would happen if you had a gay son or grandson? Would you look them in the face and say you voted against their happiness and equal rights? I understand if you don't want to go out of your way to support gays and lesbians, that is your right, but why go to the polls just to deny them their happiness?

[B-Line]

As long as we are discussing the religious aspect of this debate, I'd like to add, that my religion supports same sex marriages.

So why are Christian values being forced on me when my own religion accepts homosexuality.

That is why we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, so your religious views aren't imposed on me and my religious views aren't imposed on you, on a civil level.

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by B-Line

As long as we are discussing the religious aspect of this debate, I'd like to add, that my religion supports same sex marriages.

So why are Christian values being forced on me when my own religion accepts homosexuality.

That is why we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, so your religious views aren't imposed on me and my religious views aren't imposed on you, on a civil level.

I couldn't agree more.

[ylwjacket]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

FSETH brought up some good points that you failed to address. I don't have any vested interest in this matter, but I'd love to hear your comments on the rest of this post.

First off, we are not talking about changing the law to take away some "right" that someone has (well, maybe in California they did, but I live in Florida).

Second - reread my posts - I haven't said if I voted or not for it here.

Third - If my personal conviction is that same-sex marriages are not the traditional definition of marriage, it is my prerogative to think so.

Fourth - BB said something ridiculous like people had crossed out passages of the bible that condoned slavery, yet discriminated against gay people. You don't think that's offensive?

Next - he needs my support to make a change, not vice versa. So far, for pointing out that his name calling is offensive, I get a bunch of live and let live comments back. Screw that. I walked around calling gay or minority people slang terms, and constantly criticizing their lifestyle, I'd be a bigot. However, me saying that is offensive to me that my religious views are being made fun, and pissed on, somehow still makes me a bigot.

Next to Last - if I had a gay kid, it's really none of yours or anyone's business what I would tell them and what I wouldn't.

Last - I'm sorry, but I don't buy that being gay is entirely some innate biological function. I believe that it is, in many cases, a choice. The effort to legalize marriage is an attempt to have the rest of us sanction that choice.

I have not yet heard anyone make a compelling, raional argument that says why the law should change, other than being attacked for my personal religious views.

They need me, I don't need them. They need to make the case without name calling and insults, and maybe I'll listen.

[ylwjacket]

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

I agree, Fanatics of anything, INCLUDING Christian's are a menace to society, right wingers included!

I still contend you ar ebarking up the wrong tree. Are you telling me that all of those Democrats, who turned out in records to vote for yor Obama, are religious fanatics? I seriously doubt it.

Also, the continued phrases "they are not Californian, or American" are childish. We voted, in Florida, to add a bunch of stuff to our consitution. Personally, I feel like constitutional amendments let the lawmakers off the hook - they should make the law or not, regardless of its topic, and then take the heat either way. They hide behind these amendment initiatives as a way of not having to answer to their constituents, which I think is wrong.

So, are the people that voted for all of those stupid amendments that I voted against not Floridians? (almost all of them passed, and I don't like them. And yes, some of them abridged rights that I had).

You really need to grow up, make your case on its merits, and leave the vitriole out of it, or you'll never go anywhere.

A few posts back, I tried to say just that, but I also said something like lay off God. You chose to ignore the political advice, but to continue to trash religion.

In California of all places, "religious fanatics" did not carry that amendment.