It has begun..... - Page 6

LI-X5 · #51 08-19-2011, 09:17 PM

my m5 used to drink 1 qt of oil p/mo like clockwork , matter of fact many bmws do !!

my x5m has needed oil 3x's in 12 mo's , usually pull right in for a top off !!

i believe it has to do with the way you drive , me i beet the shittt outtta my cars ! drive it like you stole it !

NEIL

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donho · #52 08-19-2011, 09:21 PM

Basic economic is why manufacturers will not use parts that have long replacement times. What does a dealer charge for replacing your air filter? Yeah, I know. Maintenance is included. But the cost is on the vehicle costs. I know what Lincoln/Ford used to charge because I was a tech at a dealership. Air filters are quick swaps and fast Money for dealers. Why would the manufacturer use a lifetime style filter? And hurt their maintinance parts sales? Its very simple. I will test my truck after I install them. If it runs the same or faster. I will keep them. If it slows down, I will throw them away and go back to the stock ones. For 73 bucks, I will give it shot. It is such a cheap item that might improve power. Why not try it?

donho · #53 08-19-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI-X5

my m5 used to drink 1 qt of oil p/mo like clockwork , matter of fact many bmws do !!

my x5m has needed oil 3x's in 12 mo's , usually pull right in for a top off !!

i believe it has to do with the way you drive , me i beet the shittt outtta my cars ! drive it like you stole it !

NEIL

That is exactly how I drive mine. I picked up a single Qt of mobile 1 and a five Qt jug of mobile 1. I will just top it off when I have to. Let the beatings continue!!!

donho · #54 08-19-2011, 09:31 PM

I forgot to mention that last night of Rt46. I hit the light next to a white GTR. I inched a few times and he looked over. I saw him hit something on the dash. I assumed it was his LC. I had mine in M and was manual already. I see the opposing light turn yellow. I mash it and on green I am gone. The GTR did not take off. No LC. Nothing. I felt silly.
I wonder how I would have happened if he did race?

Rez · #55 08-20-2011, 12:25 AM

No harm in trying but there is such a thing called placebo effect you know...

JCL · #56 08-20-2011, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donho

I have to disagree.
I have used K&N in most of my vehicles because I have seen the gains in real world testing. Granted I used AEM in both my QX56s. But that is because I got a great deal on the CAI.

I used them on my Mustangs when they were street cars. and they all picked up. There are many magazine articles that backed this up.
A stock non MAF(speed density) would pick up 1-2 tenths. A MAF stock stang would pick up 2-3 tenths. Over the stock paper element filter. I will spend 35 bucks for 3 tenths anyday!! Dont get me wrong. I know the truck will not be picking up 3 tenths from a filter swap. But saying that K&Ns exist to suck people out of money is a little harsh.

I'll bet you those magazines contained advertising from K&N.

Independent testing shows small improvements in restriction with a K&N filter. However, that is on a test bench. In the real world, over the interval between filter changes or cleaning, I don't think it is as relevant.

The K&N filter did not show a linear response with respect to restriction as dust collected in the testing, it had an exponential response. That is, when it starts to get clogged it got clogged very quickly. And the low restriction claim only applies to a clean filter.

The K&N filter also let a lot of dust pass through (relative to OE filters). If that doesn't matter (ie on a race track) then fine, but in the real world filtering matters to engine life. If a tenth of a second matters, then, again, just take the filter out. I wouldn't do so, but that is just me.

Instead of the K&N marketing links, here are some independent tests. I don't think the engine model and filter model matter much, the info is relevant for a broad cross section of vehicles. Let me know what you think.

Air Filtration Test

Aftermarket Air Intakes/Filters - Do They Work? - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

donho · #57 08-20-2011, 05:19 AM

In the first air filtration test, it said the cotton gauze type filter DID flow more air then the paper. Even though the paper element filtered better. Thats sounds good to me. Unless you are keeping your car/truck for long periods of time, I can live with less filtration for more airflow.

On the second article. How did the guy know it did not make more HP? Did he wheel dyno it? Did he yank the engine and engine dyno it? Did he make before and after passes, under similar conditions to see any gains or loses?
To tell me a Turbo Diesel did not make more HP with a aftermarket filter is absurd, Granted it may not be 20-30HP. Hell, it may be 1-2 HP. But for the small cost and the need to not replace it, it makes sense to me.

Flowbench data is great. But from dragracing I know it depends heavily on conditions and calibration of flowbench. I had a set of all out cylinder heads that flow drastically different of three flowbenches. I have seen engines vary 150 HP from engine dyno to engine dyno.
Real world performance is what I care about.
we can go back and forth all day about this. But the proof is in the performance. I have baseline tests of my truck. I will run it in similar conditions and see if it picks up anything or at least performs the same. if it does, I will keep them. If performance decreases, I will toss them and put stock paper filters back in. I will say you were right and I will be out 73 bucks. But instead of bench racing about this, I rather test a cheap/simple mod like this and see what happens.

and as far as the mags using K&N as advertisers??? Yeah maybe. But the gains the mags got, were the gains EVERYONE picked up.
This was in 1989-1990, just when everyone started the mustang modifications. I personally bought a brand new 1990 LX 5.0.
It picked up almost 3 tenths with the K&N over the stock paper.
Now did it filter less??? Yeah maybe. But like I said I am not that concerned with that. It still filters better then NO filter.

They will be here this week. I will try to get them in and test my truck before I leave for vacation. if I do not make it it, I will test when I get back.

TahoeM3 · #58 08-20-2011, 09:23 AM

That story about the GTR is pretty funny...either he thought you were a total goon and was ignoring you or he was trying to do launch control but botched it. I'm sure he would beat you but it would be nice to see how close it would be. I came across a CTS-V coupe yesterday while in the Vantage and I wanted to see how they would compare so I tried to bait him a bit. I wasn't being a jerk or anything, I just wanted to see how a rolling run would go. I'm pretty sure I could beat him, but he wanted no part of it. Again, either he thought I was a total goon and was ignoring me or he knew something was up (maybe he thought it was the V12). Either way, I didn't get to see the outcome.

When you drop in the K&Ns, you might want to pull out the charcoal filters, too if they are there (or do it separately so you can see the effects of individual steps). The charcoal filters are apparently only present in US cars for BMW, and they are not there for engine filtration...they are there to prevent fumes from leaking out once the engine is shut off. M5 guys have seen 5-10 hp from this alone.

donho · #59 08-20-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

That story about the GTR is pretty funny...either he thought you were a total goon and was ignoring you or he was trying to do launch control but botched it. I'm sure he would beat you but it would be nice to see how close it would be. I came across a CTS-V coupe yesterday while in the Vantage and I wanted to see how they would compare so I tried to bait him a bit. I wasn't being a jerk or anything, I just wanted to see how a rolling run would go. I'm pretty sure I could beat him, but he wanted no part of it. Again, either he thought I was a total goon and was ignoring me or he knew something was up (maybe he thought it was the V12). Either way, I didn't get to see the outcome.

When you drop in the K&Ns, you might want to pull out the charcoal filters, too if they are there (or do it separately so you can see the effects of individual steps). The charcoal filters are apparently only present in US cars for BMW, and they are not there for engine filtration...they are there to prevent fumes from leaking out once the engine is shut off. M5 guys have seen 5-10 hp from this alone.

I yanked both Charcoal filters from my E when i replaced the stock filters with these ripoff K&Ns.

the paper filter was literally touching the charcoal filters. like right next to each other. The K&Ns are thinner so I ripped the charcoal filters out and all was good.

TahoeM3 · #60 08-20-2011, 12:41 PM

Factory intake systems are usually very restrictive, sometimes to the point of being ridiculous...for various (mostly legal) reasons.

One good example of this is the Porsche Boxster/Cayman, which uses a restrictor plate...supposedly to keep lit cigarettes from being sucked into the engine and catching the paper filter on fire...but more likely to keep the power down and not get too close to the 911. I took the restrictor plate off my 987S, which blocks the entire air path except for a small gap smaller than your fingertip all the way around, and the difference was very noticeable. I wouldn't be surprised if I picked up 20 hp from that.

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