CCV Valve - Oil Separation Failure due to cold weather...anyone else?

[X5 Meister]

My quick replies.

1. You keep saying it was roughly 1,000 miles over warranty. NO IT WAS NOT. The standard warranty is 4 years OR 50,000 miles whichever comes FIRST. You car is 7 years+ old and roughly 51,000 miles. My guess would be that you hit 4 years BEFORE 50,000 miles. Assuming that fact, you are 3+ years out of warranty and NOT 1,000 miles out of warranty. For someone who has owned 3 BMW's you should know this by now.

If someone has a 10 year old BMW with 2,000 miles, they are NOT still 48,000 miles within warranty, you understand that right??? There is no "misconstruing of facts," you are plainly wrong.

"Goodwill" assistance to me is a free repair like if car HAS just left warranty by about a week and they'll cover the whole thing. Guess we have differing definitions. I have had long term relationships with several BMW dealers with the, I don't know, 20+ BMW's I owned to date and my experience is that dealers take care of good customers. Period. I've had bills literally cut in half.

2. If your car is indeed OOP then you are still out of warranty at 6 years unless you bought something else.

3. I don't care what forums you belong to. Fact of the matter is that this is not an issue exclusive to the X5. BMW uses it's 6 & 8 cylinder engines in a lot of different models and they are prone to the same problems. Don't believe me, just check the associated SIB's. Perhaps because more X5's are in colder climates and their owners think they are bullet proof, that's the reason for the failures being attributed to the X5 more than other models, I really don't know. It seems to me that had you actually done "a great deal of research on this issue" you would know about the problem before it happened to you, at least enough to protect yourself adequately. What is the date of production of your car? And did you have the upgraded parts installed when they came out? You sure as hell should have especially given the climate you live in. (I don't know if you have a 2003 3.0 or 4.4, but for the 4.4 the heated wrap costs $450.16 retail, for the 3.0 the upgraded parts are even less at $321.61 retail (with a typical discount they would run around $280 total), and you can do the install yourself without too much difficulty). If you were in San Diego then I doubt you'd be on this board.

4. You are contradicting yourself. You say that you've maintained the car very well and that you knew enough to "regularly checked the oil/separator dipstick area for sludge buildup" but you didn't know about the oil separator fix? How is that possible? I don't know anyone who would randomly be checking an oil separator for sludge build-up unless they were specifically told to do so, and if that was the case, then there must be a reason behind it, and THAT being the case, they should know about the fix since the SIB's have been around since at least early 2004.

6. Good. Statements like that don't inspire confidence.

- Your statement "I never said it was entirely the fault of BMW."
So it's not entirely their fault, but you are screaming class action lawsuit already. Nice one.

I won't go tit for tat either. Your post (first post no less) came off as juvenile and full of erroneous and contradictory statements.

Last point, you can justify just about anything under the sun as a safety related problem that should be recalled immediately. Heck a peeling steering wheel trim, if I look at it while driving might cause me to have a accident. BMW has known about the peeling steering wheel trim issue enough to upgrade the part, but there definitely was not a safety recall issued for it. Can I get a show of hands for a class action on that puppy?

Enough said.

Originally Posted by bman05

Here's a quick response to X5 Meister's queries:



Answer 1. I never expected BMW to repair my car for free. I requested that they extend some "Goodwill" assistance in this instance since the car was meticulously maintained at BMW dealerships, was in pristine condition and was roughly 1K over warranty. Did you see, in my initial post, where I requested "some goodwill assistance", as in parts covered or a lower labor rate? Misconstruing facts that are plainly laid out in the original posts leads to skewed responses/opinions. My intent on posting my experience was to receive feedback from others.



Answer 2. It is an extended OOP. There may be different terminology for this, however I am not aware of it.



Answer 3. I joined this forum on 02/12/10 specifically to post this issue. If you go to e46fanatics, you'll notice that, under the same username, I've been a member there since '05. I have been a member w/ e46fanatics since well before that, but lost/forgot my profile information. I seldom posted there as I do not live on internet forums. I have, however, done a great deal of research on this issue. I also regularly checked the oil/separator dipstick area for sludge buildup and never noticed it until the catastrophic failure of a few weeks ago.



Answer 4. Did you read the subsequent paragraph of my original post where I stated I wasn't aware of the fix? I found aout about the heated wrap after the failure of my CCV. I did know about the issue beforehand and did check the affected areas and looked for signs of this issue (white smoke from tailpipe, excess usage of oil, hard starts, etc), none of which I noticed.



Answer 5. See answer to your first question.



Answer 6. Obviously it does not. That was more of a facetious statement on my part that vehicles with a cold weather package should be expected to operate in cold weather. I understand what the difference is between a cold weather and a non-cold weather packaged BMW as I've owned both.



I never said it was entirely the fault of BMW. In my original post, I mentioned it was a three factor result of design, enviroment and use. If BMW had offered me some token help I would have been thankful. Instead, I got a very trite and unprofessional "these things happen". There is definitely a design component concerned here. That much is indisputable.



I won't go tit-for-tat with you, but I am hardly a young kid with my first car. I've bought, sold, leased, given away and borrowed many, many cars, including several BMWs. You assume I didn't conduct any research before the purchase of the X5. That assumption is completely erroneous. I was, initially, thrilled with the purchase of my most recent BMW. Not so much now.

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by bman05

Actually, I have read where X5's will fail while they are being driven due to this particular issue. If this isn't a safety issue, I am not quite sure what is. Apparently my gas pedal breaking at the hinge while I was on the highway was not a safety issue, as far as BMW was concerned.

I am not promising to sue. I've posted my story on a number of BMW forums to gauge the reaction of X5 owners who may have experienced this issue. I am thankful for the input from numerous BMW owners so far on these sites and I am hopeful that more constructive posts are forthcoming. Yes, in a way I am venting, yet I am also accumulating evidence/anecdotal research. Keep it coming!

I am all for you getting in BMW's face to make them take more responsibility for this, but I don't see it as any more of a safety hazard than say a water pump, fuel pump, electronics, etc. failure. There are many things that can break/fail when a car is in motion that makes it a hazard, but it would be difficult to sue an auto manufacturer because parts break while operating the vehicle. In all honesty, how is this any different than having a water pump fail while driving? BMW cooling systems are notorious for breaking. Could you sue because it happened to you and left you stranded? Or broke while you were driving and caused drivability isues? I don't see how. I understand you are not promising to sue, I am just saying...

I do see your gas pedal issue as a safety issue. It could have got wedged behind the brake pedal or who knows what else.

flatlander, I understand your point, but I have yet to read about any X5's catching fire or causing significant injury from this issue. More X5's have caught fire for other reasons than this. It is really almost a non-issue.

[bman05]

Here we go, another internet warrior. Sigh. I'll play along again. Your attitude reminds me very much of the BMWNA rep I had recently spoken with...pompous, overbearing, arrogant and quick to assume.

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

My quick replies.

1. You keep saying it was roughly 1,000 miles over warranty. NO IT WAS NOT. The standard warranty is 4 years OR 50,000 miles whichever comes FIRST. You car is 7 years+ old and roughly 51,000 miles. My guess would be that you hit 4 years BEFORE 50,000 miles. Assuming that fact, you are 3+ years out of warranty and NOT 1,000 miles out of warranty. For someone who has owned 3 BMW's you should know this by now.

If someone has a 10 year old BMW with 2,000 miles, they are NOT still 48,000 miles in warranty, you understand that right??? There is no "misconstruing of facts," you are plainly wrong.

My X5 is roughly over 1K in warranty. The warranty on the X5 also expired late in Nov of 2009. I am not 3+ years out of warranty. Again, your assumption is erroneous.

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

"Goodwill" assistance to me is a free repair. Guess we have differing definitions. I have had long term relationships with several BMW dealers with the, I don't know, 20+ BMW's I owned to date and my experience is that dealers take care of good customers. Period. I've had bills literally cut in half.

The original quote plainly stated what I requested from BMW, which was assistance or help with this matter. I even illustrated what my request was, i.e. a less expensive labor rate or assistence with the cost of the parts. Why you would assume I asked for a "free repair" is beyond me. If I plainly stated what I had asked for, don't insert your definition of "free repair" in place. Reading comprehension is essential.

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

2. If your car is indeed OOP then you are still out of warranty at 6 years unless you bought something else.

See my response(s) above. I stated I didn't know the exact terminology. I do know my warranty expired in Nov. of 2009 and at 50K miles.

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

3. I don't care what forums you belong to. Fact of the matter is that this is not an issue exclusive to the X5. BMW uses it's 6 & 8 cylinder engines in a lot of different models and they are prone to the same problems. Don't believe me, just check the associated SIB's. Perhaps because more X5's are in colder climates and their owners think they are bullet proof, that's the reason for the failures being attributed to the X5 more than other models, I really don't know. It seems to me that had you actually done "a great deal of research on this issue" you would know about the problem before it happened to you, at least enough to protect yourself adequately. What is the date of production of your car? And did you have the upgraded parts installed when they came out? You sure as hell should have especially given the climate you live in. (I don't know if you have a 2003 3.0 or 4.4, but for the 4.4 the heated wrap costs $450.16 retail, for the 3.0 the upgraded parts are even less at $321.61 retail (with a typical discount they would run around $280 total), and you can do the install yourself without too much difficulty). If you were in San Diego then I doubt you'd be on this board.

You made a huge deal out of the fact that this was my first post on this board, so I made reference to my credentials. You obviously know a great deal about BMW vehicles, however your social skills aren't so well honed. I never stated this issue was exclusive to X5's, I said it was endemic with X5's. I've never experienced it with any of the other BMWs I've owned, hence this is my first experience with this catastrophic issue. I also stated that I was aware of the potential for this issue and conducted (what I thought to be) the appropriate maintenance and looked for warning signs. Remember reading comprehension? I stated I didn't become aware of the "fix" until AFTER the incident. You love casting aspersions on what I state, however you really don't take the time to actually comprehend what is stated. I'll let you know the date of production when I get access to that info. It's a 2003, which was stated in the original post. If you want the month it was made, you'll have to wait until I get that info.

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

4. You are contradicting yourself. You say that you've maintained the car very well and that you knew enough to "regularly checked the oil/separator dipstick area for sludge buildup" but you didn't know about the oil separator fix? How is that possible? I don't know anyone who would randomly be checking an oil separator for sludge build-up unless they were specifically told to do so, and if that was the case, then there must be a reason behind it, and THAT being the case, they should know about the fix since the SIB's have been around since at least early 2004.

Again, I will reiterate what I've stated since you can't discern the fact that: 1) I knew this was a potential issue with certain year X5's, and looked for warning signs and checked the obvious locations where this could be an issue and, 2) I wasn't aware of the TSB or fix until AFTER this situation manifested itself. Stop misconstruing what was stated! Read back to where it was stated I was never informed of the "heated fix". How is this difficult for you to comprehend?

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

- Your statement "I never said it was entirely the fault of BMW."
So it's not entirely their fault, but you are screaming class action lawsuit already. Nice one.

I won't go tit for tat either. Your post (first post no less) came off as juvenile and full of erroneous and contradictory statements.

Last point, you can justify just about anything under the sun as a safety related problem that should be recalled immediately. Heck a peeling steering wheel trim, if I look at it while driving might cause me to have a accident. BMW has known about the peeling steering wheel trim issue enough to upgrade the part, but there definitely was not a safety recall issued for it. Can I get a show of hands for a class action on that puppy?

Enough said.

Quick lesson on the law: In a product liability or design defect litigation, there does not have to be 100% fault on the manufacturer or designer in order for there to be potential recovery. What you believe the law to be and what the law actually is are apparently different things entirely, much like my plainly stated definition of "goodwill" (partial assistance on parts and a less-expensive labor rate; i.e. "help") and yours ("free repair"). Again, I didn't "scream" anything; in fact I stated, quite plainly, that I wasn't "promising" any litigation. Again, you have issues with reading comprehension. Apparently none of the people that have viewed this topic 350+ times had any issues with comprehending what I stated, only you. There is nothing contradictory or erroneous in anything that I posted.

Comparing peeling steering wheel trim to the potential for a vehicle to suddenly sieze and hydrolock as safety issues subject to recall is apples and oranges. If you want to push that comparison, I'll most happily go at it with you.

You obviously know a great deal about BMW vehicles and have accumulated many, many posts on this site and good for you on both counts. Do not, however, cherrypick from amongst my statements to try and illustrate non-existent inconsistencies and contradictions.

Stop infecting this thread with your vitrolic posts. You are about as constructive as the first responder to this thread.

As for those who have posted similar stories, etc, thank you for your time and constructive comments and keep them coming!

[X5 Meister]

Not being Kreskin I still don't know your car's model, date of production or in-service date. Having said that, it had an original 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty and if you were the original owner (still don't know that either) AND you bought the OOP (which I seriously doubt) you would have an extended warranty to 6 years OR 100,000 miles (even though you said that "I do know my warranty expired in Nov. of 2009 and at 50K miles" which makes zero sense since there is no such thing as a 6 year / 50,000 mile warranty!?). IN EITHER CASE, YOUR WARRANTY HAS EXPIRED. Now, if you were a nice guy, then your dealer (which one btw?) would likely have taken good care of you, AND BMW customer service would have done as well (they sure took care of me when I needed it), but all indications point to the fact that you act like a creep which explains not only how they treated you, but also your 6 posts of worthless banter (the first of which includes the classic phrase "class action time"). Do yourself a favor and go buy a toyota and get on the prius forum. It fits your personality to a "T." As far as reading comprehension is concerned. Read this: I'm done.

[msammy]

Sheesh... Can't we settle this over a pint? No more arguing boys, OK?

[StanF18]

Argument notwithstanding, I am liking this thread and catching useful tidbits!

Meister: On your point # 3 above with the heated wrap costing $450.16 retail. My dealer never mentioned this fix. They only swapped the spark plugs. Consequently I'm still getting the occasional cold morning misfire. I realize they're not about to go do pro-bono heat wrap installs on all 4.4s north of the Mason-Dixon line. But I would have gladly gone out-of-pocket if they claimed that it would help. They never mentioned it based on their diagnostics of my codes. I even told them to check the OSV and vacuum leak. All clear. So I can only surmise that the cold-weather misfires are being caused by more than one simple issue. Cold weather is the trigger, but after that it looks like there may be more than one factor leading to the mis-fires??

Oh yeah, I mentioned the Intermediate Levers Bulletin. They said my VIN is not in that batch.

Is this cold weather misfire a problem in the E70?

[X5 Meister]

Wait a sec Stan, do you have a E53 or E70? and which engine? and date of production?

Originally Posted by StanF18

Argument notwithstanding, I am liking this thread and catching useful tidbits!

Meister: On your point # 3 above with the heated wrap costing $450.16 retail. My dealer never mentioned this fix. They only swapped the spark plugs. Consequently I'm still getting the occasional cold morning misfire. I realize they're not about to go do pro-bono heat wrap installs on all 4.4s north of the Mason-Dixon line. But I would have gladly gone out-of-pocket if they claimed that it would help. They never mentioned it based on their diagnostics of my codes. I even told them to check the OSV and vacuum leak. All clear. So I can only surmise that the cold-weather misfires are being caused by more than one simple issue. Cold weather is the trigger, but after that it looks like there may be more than one factor leading to the mis-fires??

Oh yeah, I mentioned the Intermediate Levers Bulletin. They said my VIN is not in that batch.

Is this cold weather misfire a problem in the E70?

[bman05]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

Not being Kreskin I still don't know your car's model, date of production or in-service date. Having said that, it had an original 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty and if you were the original owner (still don't know that either) AND you bought the OOP (which I seriously doubt) you would have an extended warranty to 6 years OR 100,000 miles (even though you said that "I do know my warranty expired in Nov. of 2009 and at 50K miles" which makes zero sense since there is no such thing as a 6 year / 50,000 mile warranty!?). IN EITHER CASE, YOUR WARRANTY HAS EXPIRED JACKASS. Now, my 18 year old twit, if you were a nice guy, then your dealer (which one btw?) would likely have taken good care of you, AND BMW customer service would have done as well (they sure took care of me when I needed it), but all indications point to the fact that you are a douche bag and a creep which explains not only how they treated you, but also your 6 posts of worthless nonsense. Do yourself a favor and go buy a toyota and get on the prius forum. It fits your personality to a "T." As far as reading comprehension is concerned. Read this: I'm done with this idiot.

Your completely inane post just serves to illustrate the lack of sense, social skills and common decency that you have. Firstly, I will gladly share the production date and warranty information with the rest of this forum when I have it in hand. Not having the information with me makes it difficult to cite. You, however, have zero issues with jumping to conclusions, making rash assumptions, switching facts around and disregarding plain instances where you are proven wrong. However, notwithstanding the foregoing, please refer to the following description of a 2004 X5 for sale that I lifted right from a local BMW dealer's ad (now, pay attention to the warranty info and do the math!):

"You are viewing a Certified Pre Owned 2004 BMW X5 3.0i with a Toledo Blue Metallic exterior on Beige Dakota Leather interior. You will have the remainder of the original factory warranty/roadside assistance/maintenance plan to 02/27/2010 or 50,000, as well as the BMW Certified Warranty to 02/27/2010 or 100,000 miles. Buy with confidence knowing we stand behind our vehicles. This vehicle is equipped with Cold-weather Package, Premium Package, STEPTRONIC automatic trans., Dark Poplar Wood trim, Power front seats, Rain sensor and auto headlight, White turn-signal lights, and Roof Rails. Please call for more details and to schedule a time for viewing."

I'll even post a link to the ad if requested.

2010 minus 2004 equals 6. 6 years or 50K miles for the original factory warranty. I know they are typically 4 yrs/50K, but I know my warranty was up in Nov of 2009 and/or at 50K. When I get the production date, I'll post it. Regardless, again you jump to conclusions and again you are proven to be wrong. Someone could probably get a fulltime job correcting you but I seriously doubt it would be worth the pay.

And, for the record, where did I ever claim that my warranty never expired? I stated that the warranty expired time and again, from the first post onward! That was a non-issue and not the point of the post. If you want to gloat over the fact that you've successfully pointed out the uncontested fact that my warranty has expired, have at it! Reading comprehension Meister...letters form words, words form sentences...read from left to right and top to bottom and, in your case, don't stress yourself...you seem to take this far too seriously and get twisted far too easily.

The reason I neglected to mention what dealership I am with is that I value their privacy. They have accomodated me very well in many regards and when I settle up with them, I'll give them a glowing report when and if merited. So far they have done right by me...professional, detail oriented, courteous and a pleasure to deal with so far. Far unlike your attitude.

I can point out the numerous erroneous statements, assumptions, failures to comprehend and errors in logic you have made, but I'd rather let the record speak for itself. As for calling me a douchebag and giving me the e-version of the finger, I know for a fact that's something you're safe to do via the internet but something you'd never, ever do to me in person. 18 year old twit? Another assumption by you. Times that by two and you have more of a clue of my age. It's pompous dolts like yourself with frail egos and an inability to admit when they are wrong that get off on name calling and posting little animated cartoon characters giving the finger to express themselves. Try not to get too upset over this Meister, it's just the internet!

The only thing proven by your posts is that you have some serious issues and refuse to acknowledge where you are wrong. Thank you for pissing all over this thread, by the way. Self-titled "Meisters" like yourself only serve to interpose far too much garbage in an otherwise valuable resource. I swear, you must get paid by BMWNA to misconstrue facts, spread misinformation and twist statements to serve your own ignorance.

Such a smug, elitist, pompous jackass I have never encountered and, thankfully, you seem to be the only one on this board. Wear that title well, oh Meister!

[X5 Meister]

I guess BMW only gives its exclusive "6 years or 50K miles for the original factory warranty" to special people like you.

Let me get this straight. You are proving your point by cutting and pasting a generic ad from Greenwich BMW online? Wow. Case closed.

Listen, make sure you post your documents on this thread as I'm sure the remainder of the 52,669 members would like to see them. What legal firm are you with anyway?

[bman05]

My lord, but you obstinate! You are just not getting this particular issue straight, but I'll try and make it simple so even you can follow along. Where did you miss where I stated "I will gladly share the production date and warranty information with the rest of this forum when I have it in hand." Not having the particular documentation in hand makes it difficult to post the specifics of same. (In fact, I just called BMWNA to get this info and their offices were closed - probably for President's Day- so you'll just have to wait until I get this information. Regardless, why is this information germane to the post?)

The Greenwich BMW ad was an illustration that said warranty terms exist, not definitive proof of MY warranty.

Again, reading comprehension. The key is to read what is actually stated, not what you think is stated.