X5 4.6 Build

[JCL]

I find it easy to deny my business to companies that have misleading marketing practices. Maybe that is just me.

I look for independent certification to published standards, things like API, rather than the colour of the packaging.

I don't know the anonymous engine builder, but since Amsoil operates a multilevel marketing program, he is most likely getting paid for his recommendation. That is how Amsoil, Amway , etc, operate. What is in it for him? A percentage. He doesn't have to hope for an engine failure, that would be a logical fallacy. He just gets to collect his share of the sales.

Redline? Another oil that doesn't typically certify to independent standards, such as API. They are the ones that say to use their Dexron-clone ATF in ZF transmissions, despite the known problems associated with doing so.

[tynashracing]

Originally Posted by JCL

I find it easy to deny my business to companies that have misleading marketing practices. Maybe that is just me.

I look for independent certification to published standards, things like API, rather than the colour of the packaging.

I don't know the anonymous engine builder, but since Amsoil operates a multilevel marketing program, he is most likely getting paid for his recommendation. That is how Amsoil, Amway , etc, operate. What is in it for him? A percentage. He doesn't have to hope for an engine failure, that would be a logical fallacy. He just gets to collect his share of the sales.

Redline? Another oil that doesn't typically certify to independent standards, such as API. They are the ones that say to use their Dexron-clone ATF in ZF transmissions, despite the known problems associated with doing so.

A Ponzi Scheme Called America

I would suggest that the worlds economy is one big ponzi scheme.

JCL, you're obviously very well versed in these issues and respected for your opinions.
How much does it cost to play in the game of "certification"? Do you think cost could be a factor...or is it free for companies to have their oil "certified"?
You're smart, you know where I'm going with this. I honestly don't know the answer, but suspect that it's probably quite expensive to "certify"...which knocks out any of the small competitors to the large multi-nationals.

"Independent"...define Independent analysis/certification. Yes, I'm quite skeptical that these "findings/certifications" are completely and totally independent...unless they're getting paid an enormous amount of money for such certifications...which again puts me back to my first concern with small companies not being able to compete. I've seen in too many cases where the game is rigged. Heck, our entire energy policy here in the US is rigged. Uggghhh.

No doubt, there's a part of me that wants the underdog to win. I'm sick of the multi-nationals calling all the shots. If Stickley is making money off of a client using Amsoil...it can't be much. Not to mention, it's very easy to sign up and buy it directly from Amsoil.
Like I said, no dog in this fight. My last oil change, I actually used Mobil 1 5/30 extended life. I used it because it was available and wanted to see if I liked the oil or not. I'm not going to use it on my next oil change. I'm going to put my money with the underdog and see what happens. If I don't like the oil...I'll report back.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by tynashracing

JCL, you're obviously very well versed in these issues and respected for your opinions.
How much does it cost to play in the game of "certification"? Do you think cost could be a factor...or is it free for companies to have their oil "certified"?
You're smart, you know where I'm going with this. I honestly don't know the answer, but suspect that it's probably quite expensive to "certify"...which knocks out any of the small competitors to the large multi-nationals.

It costs money to certify. But if cost was the reason, then why would Amsoil come out with multiple lines of API-certified oil, at a lower price point? They could afford the cost of certification there. But not for the products they refer to as their premium products?

I suspect it isn't cost, but flexibility. By not certifying, they retain the ability to change the recipe from batch to batch, if they want. At no incremental cost. And they get to perpetuate the underdog myth, the small company against the giants. They go to great lengths to keep that going.

Or maybe they spend so much money developing super oil that they then can't afford to test it. No, I think I'll go with theory A.

[Roadkill]

Great discussion guys but please don't forget that this thread is about papasmurfs resurrection of the beast. Looking forward to more of what he's got in store for us.

[tynashracing]

Originally Posted by JCL

It costs money to certify. But if cost was the reason, then why would Amsoil come out with multiple lines of API-certified oil, at a lower price point? They could afford the cost of certification there. But not for the products they refer to as their premium products?

I suspect it isn't cost, but flexibility. By not certifying, they retain the ability to change the recipe from batch to batch, if they want. At no incremental cost. And they get to perpetuate the underdog myth, the small company against the giants. They go to great lengths to keep that going.

Or maybe they spend so much money developing super oil that they then can't afford to test it. No, I think I'll go with theory A.

Yeah, I don't know enough about Amsoil and their policy on certifying or not certifying their various oils. Something to look into for sure.
I get what you're saying, but surely you have seen the abuses that large multi-nationals have inflicted on small companies to prevent them from ever becoming real competitors. Heck, govt helps these large entities put small competitors out of business as well.
I'm going to attempt a call to Stickley to see if he's willing to talk to me about the specific issue he sees with Mobil 1 and the benefit of using Amsoil and Redline motor oil...not trans fluid!

[JCL]

Originally Posted by tynashracing

.....My last oil change, I actually used Mobil 1 5/30 extended life. I used it because it was available and wanted to see if I liked the oil or not. I'm not going to use it on my next oil change. I'm going to put my money with the underdog and see what happens. If I don't like the oil...I'll report back.

I am interested in what your criteria is for liking an oil or not, over a single oil change cycle.

I have seen lots of posters refer to having good results on a particular oil in their vehicle, over a relatively short period of time. Without multiple oil samples and trend lines, without control samples or base lines, I don't know how to judge the validity of the recommendation.

[papasmurf]

This thread has spun way out of control. All I said that when I asked the builder what he thought I should use, the two brands that were recommended were Amsoil and Redline. I previously used Mobil 1 and changed my oil regularly with it, and was "rewarded" with my rod bearings going at 107k. I WAS NEVER TOLD THAT MOBIL 1 WAS TO BLAME, I CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION ON MY OWN. I would never use Mobil 1 again as a result. I always bought it at Wal-Mart and did the oil changes myself with Mann filters, so I know what I put in.

I've used Amsoil in my 2 stroke stuff and it's always ran great. The shop I work at has an Amsoil rep, so getting it is easy.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by dinan e39

Great discussion guys but please don't forget that this thread is about papasmurfs resurrection of the beast. Looking forward to more of what he's got in store for us.

Good point.

It was the OP that first brought up Mobil 1, Amsoil, and Redline, however.

I am interested in the root cause analysis on the original bearing failure, if it is available.

[tynashracing]

Originally Posted by JCL

I am interested in what your criteria is for liking an oil or not, over a single oil change cycle.

I have seen lots of posters refer to having good results on a particular oil in their vehicle, over a relatively short period of time. Without multiple oil samples and trend lines, without control samples or base lines, I don't know how to judge the validity of the recommendation.

Probably not as scientific as you would likely require. But, since using Mobil 1 5-30 extended life...I'm dealing with start up noise coming from the timing chain. I've changed the tensioner and it helped for a day or so.
Prior to the oil change, I wasn't getting any sound from my timing chain. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
I'm going to change it up and see if this situation improves. I cringe every time I start the truck and get the sound.

papasmurf, sorry this has gone on too long. Stickley is a good guy and knows his $hit.

[JCL]

Papasmurf, are you aware of the counterfeit Mann filters that were distributed through national US auto parts chains up through 2011? Mann shut down the factory and issued press releases with warnings. Might be worth looking into.