Tranny Problems 'Fixed'!

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Isambard

So, until my tranny (or anyone else's) goes bang as a result we'll just have to take it as nothing more than an individuals choice and their opinion. Green apples vs red apples

You are taking your single example and claiming it is indicative of a much larger population of transmissions. That is not sound logic.

You used a non-recommended fluid and had no problems. Great. Congratulations. But statistically, others would be better served by using recommended fluids. There are lots of trusted statistics and professional experiences related to increased rates of ZF failures after using incorrect fluids. Those statistics have no relation to an individual's personal preferences.

[swissfrank]

Isambard,

Just curious, did you check the fluid level <30 Celsius engine idling AC on, before you changed it with redline? Curious because it sounded like slightly low ATF to me.

[Isambard]

Originally Posted by JCL

You are taking your single example and claiming it is indicative of a much larger population of transmissions. That is not sound logic.

No I'm not. I'm doing nothing of the sort. I am simply reporting on MY findings and experiences to date on MY transmission pre and post fluid change. And as such, as stated previously if it goes bang then you'll all be the first to hear.


What claims have I made concerning anyone else's transmission?

Originally Posted by JCL

You used a non-recommended fluid and had no problems. Great. Congratulations. But statistically, others would be better served by using recommended fluids. There are lots of trusted statistics and professional experiences related to increased rates of ZF failures after using incorrect fluids. Those statistics have no relation to an individual's personal preferences.

Yes I used a 'non-recommended fluid', I've also been caught for speeding once or twice. So what?

Where can I find these 'trusted statistics' and 'professional experiences' that relate to my specific transmission coupled with my specific symptoms prior to the fluid change? Has a qualified individual, or a company/third party run controlled tests on this transmission using different fluids and as a result there is a load of data on it somewhere I don't know about? Or is it simply peoples opinions popping up again?

'But statistically, others would be better served by using recommended fluids' Where you have sourced those statistics from?

[Isambard]

Originally Posted by swissfrank

Isambard,

Just curious, did you check the fluid level <30 Celsius engine idling AC on, before you changed it with redline? Curious because it sounded like slightly low ATF to me.

No I didn't. I followed this DIY.. http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...y-02-4-4i.html

I thought it was on the low side also. The outside of the pan was wet, the plug and trunking was wet and there were obvious signs of seepage through the gasket.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Isambard

No I didn't. I followed this DIY.. http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...y-02-4-4i.html

I thought it was on the low side also. The outside of the pan was wet, the plug and trunking was wet and there were obvious signs of seepage through the gasket.

It is very likely then that replacing the fluid is not what helped your shifting, but rather returning the fluid to the correct level was. Proper maintenance would address that.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Isambard

Where can I find these 'trusted statistics' and 'professional experiences' that relate to my specific transmission coupled with my specific symptoms prior to the fluid change? Has a qualified individual, or a company/third party run controlled tests on this transmission using different fluids and as a result there is a load of data on it somewhere I don't know about? Or is it simply peoples opinions popping up again?

'But statistically, others would be better served by using recommended fluids' Where you have sourced those statistics from?

You are assuming that all opinions should have equal weight. The internet is an equalizer, but all posters are not the same.

You don't need to trust me. I have thirty or so years in the automotive and equipment business. Lots of experience in failure analysis, fluids, additive packages, etc. Engineering degree. Service management. And so on. But whatever, it doesn't matter. I might be a 14 year old on his Mom's computer. But, would you trust RRPhil, who has put up some great posts here, and who rebuilds transmissions for a living? If so, read this thread, especially post 50.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...mission-2.html

Professionals know these statistics. They have learned them the hard way. ZF and BMW and GM know them too. They won't give the data to you. But they will give you the conclusions based on the data. It is your decision on whether to follow these recommendations or not.

It is straightforward to link your transmission and the proper fluid. But not to solve your particular symptoms. Diagnosis would be a whole lot easier with physical inspection, to start. That is why I used the word statistically.

Have a great day.

[civdiv99]

Chill guys.

1. Arpanet link developed.
2. First email sent
3. 1.4 minutes later, porn hit the net.
4. 2.3 minutes after that, arguments about "oil" started.

All remain to this day, and ain't none of 'em going away.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's like 20 degrees out and I gotta go outside and take half the car apart just to change a front turn signal bulb. What a design...

[Isambard]

Originally Posted by JCL

It is very likely then that replacing the fluid is not what helped your shifting, but rather returning the fluid to the correct level was. Proper maintenance would address that.

Really? Thats quite an assumption. Could it also be likely that certain planets happened to be in the correct alignnment at the time I poured the fluid in? Neither of us KNOWS.

[Isambard]

Originally Posted by JCL

You are assuming that all opinions should have equal weight. The internet is an equalizer, but all posters are not the same.

I assume nothing. Yet again you're making things up in your own mind.

Originally Posted by JCL

You don't need to trust me. I have thirty or so years in the automotive and equipment business. Lots of experience in failure analysis, fluids, additive packages, etc. Engineering degree. Service management. And so on. But whatever, it doesn't matter. I might be a 14 year old on his Mom's computer.

Trust you? No. I trust no-one. Particularly those that feel they have to quote their resume. I could tell you that I have a Mech Eng degree, and have been in Engineering, Production Management, along with FEA etc etc etc for nearly 30 years myself (clue is in the username), but I wouldn't be as crass as that.

Originally Posted by JCL

Professionals know these statistics. They have learned them the hard way. ZF and BMW and GM know them too. They won't give the data to you. But they will give you the conclusions based on the data.

You're making general sweeping statements with no data sources to back them up again. Much like telling me I have made claims, yet are unable to tell me where I have made them.

Originally Posted by JCL

It is straightforward to link your transmission and the proper fluid. But not to solve your particular symptoms. Diagnosis would be a whole lot easier with physical inspection, to start. That is why I used the word statistically.

I have already said I have scoured these forums for over 2 years collecting data (statistics) searching for clues and answers to MY transmission issues before I took a certain path.

Bottom line. I have put it in MY transmission. It has worked-on MY transmission. I don't give a sh*t what you or anyone else thinks or has to say about the matter. I am simply reporting my findings. If it upsets the don't change the fluid as it may shock the system, or indeed if you do change it don't use anything other than the OEM gear brigade, then TOUGH SH*T!

Originally Posted by JCL

It is your decision on whether to follow these recommendations or not.

BINGO!!! Halle-bloody-lujah, the penny finally drops!

We all have choices in this world, I have made mine, you are more than welcome to make your own.

Have a wonderful, wonderful day.

[JCL]

Sorry, can't figure out your user name. I always think of "I am Sam, Sam I am" when I see it. I am guessing there is an MBA reference in there.

You appear to have a background in DFMEA, or PFMEA, etc, but the word production suggests a controlled process, like in manufacturing. Not assuming here, just hypothesizing. If so, you won't find the same type of statistics for service repairs in the field. Especially on a discussion forum, where, as we already agreed, no individual data source has been qualified. The knowledge is based on the experiences of professional technicians. Apart from the design engineer's info, which we don't have access to. Except for their conclusions about which fluid to use, which you don't accept as valid.

In reporting on your recent success, you are also not differentiating between changing the fluid, and bringing it up to the correct level. The latter is only suspect because of your comment that it was leaking from multiple locations when you started, the fact that it can't leak and stay at the correct level, and the knowledge that low fluid level produces the original symptoms you described.

Nobody is disputing your results. Nobody is telling you what to do. But when you said that nobody will know what to do until their transmission goes bang, that it is all just opinion, red apples and green apples, some of us commented that while we can't predict a failure on an individual unit, we can predict the statistical likelihood of failure, relative to using the correct fluid or not. That's all.

What did you think of the link?