Help! 2008 BMW x5 4.8 Engine Failure

[JCL]

Originally Posted by trader4

Well the part relating to their actions would be if they misdiagnosed what was a fixable problem when the car was first brought in. And/or if they misdiagnosed what was a fixable problem when the car was
brought back with the CEL on after being picked up and driven one mile. And if that misdiagnosis resulted in what was fixable then becoming a catastrophic failure to the point of needing a new engine. It seems that could have happened. And if it did, then their liability is not limited to the charge for the bad diagnosis. They would most likely be responsible for the engine replacement. And from the facts given so far, I'd say he could have a reasonable claim for the above against the BMW dealer.

You may just be willing to chalk it up and pay for it. From what I've
heard so far, I would not be. From what he says, he has BMW saying that the oil filter looked old, was collapsed, and that it could have been the cause of the failure. MB claims they changed the filter. Why then, isn't MB potentially liable? Why is the filter old and collapsed if they just changed it? You'd just let MB off the hook, without even taking the filter to them and asking WTF? He's barely begun to pursue this, I see no need to just give up. I've heard other similar horror stories where eventually the customer got an acceptable solution.

It appears the vehicle came to the dealer with a pre-existing condition. The BMW dealer is not going to take responsibility for replacing the engine, IMO. And they certainly don't work in used parts.

The CEL is usually for emissions sensors, the service manager is correct about that. If there is a serious problem the vehicle goes into a limp mode to save itself. Checking the oil means checking the level. Checking the filter means checking if it is leaking. Anything more requires replacing it or opening it up. And you seem to think the filter is the cause; it could just as easily be the symptom of the engine making metal. My comments are based on my experience as a service manager (not with BMW). So yes, I would not pursue a claim against the BMW dealer, but I would take any customer goodwill settlement they offered.

I didn't see a mention of MB claiming they changed the filter, but maybe I missed it. I saw a mention of the OP requesting a service from them. Maybe they didn't have a filter in stock as it isn't their brand. Check the word order, look at the part number, don't presume. I didn't let the Mercedes dealer off the hook, I said that any claim for out of warranty service will be successful only if the OP can show that they knew of the problems when the sold the vehicle. I think that is unlikely. There could be a claim if the oil service (which would need to have been documented) was done incorrectly. All we have to go on there is a comment by the BMW dealer that it must be the other guy. That isn't proof of anything.

I don't understand going after the warranty company. Why would they have a responsibility?

[wsmeyer]

I would advise getting more information before accusing anybody and pissing them off.

Did the collapsed oil filter cause the engine failure or did the engine failure cause the oil filter to collapse?

Personally I think the engine went and the metal destroyed the filter. That's only because I don't think that an engine in proper working order would be generating enough metal in the oil to cause such catastrophic failure in such a short time regardless of the condition of the filter.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by trader4

How do you know for a fact that the BMW dealer involved won't put in
a used motor to solve a problem like this, where, if what the poster
says is true, it sure looks like they are at least partly at fault? You
can't determine what outs any of the parties have without knowing
what the actual cause of the failure is. At the very least, I don't
see what good out the BMW dealer has. They worked on the car, he
picked it up, went one mile, the CEL came on, he returned. They
cleared the light, never told him what it was and sent him on his
way. Twenty miles later the engine is shot. That would seem to make
a pretty good case that when he returned with the CEL, there was something very wrong with the car, which they failed to correctly assess.

If he can get a similar mileage used engine installed for $7K, that
would be an option. But before just giving up and accepting that,
I would find out what the actual failure was, if it was related to the
filter, if it likely was the cause of that CEL return visit, etc.
Then if it looks like the dealers have responsibility I'd be aggressively
sticking with a rebuilt engine strategy. He can always go lower,
but I wouldn't at first. And depending on what the actual failure was,
he may be able to get the 3 parties to agree to split the cost.

BMW did suggest a used engine as an option. Depending on how this all goes down that is what I will be putting in the car.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by Skyline

I'd be willing to bet money on that one.

I've owned BMWs for 43 years, and I've never, ever, heard of a BMW dealer installing a used motor. Or ANY used part for that matter. I doubt any other marques dealer would do so either, the liability is too much, and I'd bet their franchise rules prohibit this. I've seen BMW dealers install short blocks to MANY V8's, (an absolutely massive job), and do other engine rebuilds on site. When it comes to an engine replacement, they work at the pleasure of BMW NA. There can be "goodwill" repairs, but those don't happen for customers who bring in a problem used vehicle bought elsewhere.

BMW were the ones that suggested a used engine as an option.

Just to clarify.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by wsmeyer

I would advise getting more information before accusing anybody and pissing them off.

Did the collapsed oil filter cause the engine failure or did the engine failure cause the oil filter to collapse?

Personally I think the engine went and the metal destroyed the filter. That's only because I don't think that an engine in proper working order would be generating enough metal in the oil to cause such catastrophic failure in such a short time regardless of the condition of the filter.

But the bypass should have been used which is in the filter; when the filter collapsed the bypass also went and thus you then had a lubrication failure. Could the suction generated cause a filter to collapse? Yes. I have seen where a fuel pump on a motorcycle collapsed the fuel tank.

That engine didn't die in that 20 mile trip, it had an issue before then. That 20 miles was just where the issue then became noticeable. What the OP also needs to find out, were any of the codes being cleared dealt with oil pressure. The oil pressure had to be low; no oil going through the filter and bypass destroyed it would have to impact the oil pressure reading.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

But the bypass should have been used which is in the filter; when the filter collapsed the bypass also went and thus you then had a lubrication failure. Could the suction generated cause a filter to collapse? Yes. I have seen where a fuel pump on a motorcycle collapsed the fuel tank.

That engine didn't die in that 20 mile trip, it had an issue before then. That 20 miles was just where the issue then became noticeable. What the OP also needs to find out, were any of the codes being cleared dealt with oil pressure. The oil pressure had to be low; no oil going through the filter and bypass destroyed it would have to impact the oil pressure reading.

The bypass is actually inside the filter? Are you sure of this?

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by Emden

BMW were the ones that suggested a used engine as an option.

Just to clarify.

Did they suggest you get a used motor, (as, in reality, it's the only sensible thing to do here,) or did they say they'd sell you one and do the install??? A BMW dealer installing a used motor is a new one to me.

The key to getting a used engine installed, is that some junkyards, (usually at slightly higher price), will guarantee a used engine for 90 days. Not only that, if the engine is no good, they will provide another engine and reimburse the shop for doing another swap. Since it's always a toss up on any used motor, and it's about 12-14 hours labor to do the swap, you want the labor guaranteed as well.

So if the BMW dealer offers to provide an engine, will they guarantee it for a certain period, INCLUDING labor? 90 days is plenty to know if the motor is good, and if you choose, get you onto an aftermarket warranty.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Emden

The bypass is actually inside the filter? Are you sure of this?

It is not in the filter. On my 3.0, it was in the filter housing. Assume the 4.8 is the same.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Skyline

Did they suggest you get a used motor, (as, in reality, it's the only sensible thing to do here,) or did they say they'd sell you one and do the install??? A BMW dealer installing a used motor is a new one to me.

That was my question as well. I understand a BMW dealer saying you should go do this.....

There is a long thread on this board about a failed 4.8. The dealer made a mistake on a service, and accepted responsibility. They talked about a used engine for a long time. Eventually, they brought a new crate engine in from Germany. I seem to recall that it took 4 months or so.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

But the bypass should have been used which is in the filter; when the filter collapsed the bypass also went and thus you then had a lubrication failure. Could the suction generated cause a filter to collapse? Yes. I have seen where a fuel pump on a motorcycle collapsed the fuel tank.

That engine didn't die in that 20 mile trip, it had an issue before then. That 20 miles was just where the issue then became noticeable. What the OP also needs to find out, were any of the codes being cleared dealt with oil pressure. The oil pressure had to be low; no oil going through the filter and bypass destroyed it would have to impact the oil pressure reading.

The bypass (separate component) is there to save the engine if the filter does get clogged. Seems much more likely that the engine was making metal and that the filter issue was a consequence, not a cause.

Agree that the vehicle very likely had these issues prior.