Help! 2008 BMW x5 4.8 Engine Failure

[Emden]

Originally Posted by Skyline

I'd be willing to bet money on that one.

I've owned BMWs for 43 years, and I've never, ever, heard of a BMW dealer installing a used motor. Or ANY used part for that matter. I doubt any other marques dealer would do so either, the liability is too much, and I'd bet their franchise rules prohibit this. I've seen BMW dealers install short blocks to MANY V8's, (an absolutely massive job), and do other engine rebuilds on site. When it comes to an engine replacement, they work at the pleasure of BMW NA. There can be "goodwill" repairs, but those don't happen for customers who bring in a problem used vehicle bought elsewhere.

BMW were the ones that suggested a used engine as an option.

Just to clarify.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by trader4

How do you know for a fact that the BMW dealer involved won't put in
a used motor to solve a problem like this, where, if what the poster
says is true, it sure looks like they are at least partly at fault? You
can't determine what outs any of the parties have without knowing
what the actual cause of the failure is. At the very least, I don't
see what good out the BMW dealer has. They worked on the car, he
picked it up, went one mile, the CEL came on, he returned. They
cleared the light, never told him what it was and sent him on his
way. Twenty miles later the engine is shot. That would seem to make
a pretty good case that when he returned with the CEL, there was something very wrong with the car, which they failed to correctly assess.

If he can get a similar mileage used engine installed for $7K, that
would be an option. But before just giving up and accepting that,
I would find out what the actual failure was, if it was related to the
filter, if it likely was the cause of that CEL return visit, etc.
Then if it looks like the dealers have responsibility I'd be aggressively
sticking with a rebuilt engine strategy. He can always go lower,
but I wouldn't at first. And depending on what the actual failure was,
he may be able to get the 3 parties to agree to split the cost.

BMW did suggest a used engine as an option. Depending on how this all goes down that is what I will be putting in the car.

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by trader4

Since Emden just reported that the BME dealer has just suggested
he buy a used motor and they will install it, I guess the "NO way"
part was wrong. As to both dealers having "reasonable outs", I beg
to disagree there too. It's far too soon to make any such determination,
we don't even know what exactly failed, what caused it to fail, etc.
We do know that he brought the car in with major symptoms, BMW
claims to have fixed it, yet in less than a mile, the CEL was on again.
He immediately went back, they reset the light, told him it was nothing,
sent him on his way. Twenty miles later the car is toast. Based on
that, you think the BMW dealer has reasonable outs? I wouldn't want
you on my jury.

I stand corrected on the BMW dealer installing a used engine. Would never happen around here. In my state dealers are required to stand behind all repairs for a certain time. I would think this would preclude them from installing a used engine unless there's some sort of loophole in that law for used parts. Or maybe that law is not in place in the OP's state.

I guess the whole key is what the CEL was on for. Even if the light was cleared, unless the service records show the code, they could always say whatever they want...ie. Loose Gas cap or whatever.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by Skyline

I stand corrected on the BMW dealer installing a used engine. Would never happen around here. In my state dealers are required to stand behind all repairs for a certain time. I would think this would preclude them from installing a used engine unless there's some sort of loophole in that law for used parts. Or maybe that law is not in place in the OP's state.

I guess the whole key is what the CEL was on for. Even if the light was cleared, unless the service records show the code, they could always say whatever they want...ie. Loose Gas cap or whatever.

As I said a minute ago, BMW is offering a 1 year warranty for labor on the engine and if the engine breaks a new one will be put in for free.

[Suge206]

Take it to carmax! j/k that sucks. i'd never own an x5 without a warranty. they've always paid for themselves.

[wsmeyer]

I would advise getting more information before accusing anybody and pissing them off.

Did the collapsed oil filter cause the engine failure or did the engine failure cause the oil filter to collapse?

Personally I think the engine went and the metal destroyed the filter. That's only because I don't think that an engine in proper working order would be generating enough metal in the oil to cause such catastrophic failure in such a short time regardless of the condition of the filter.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by wsmeyer

I would advise getting more information before accusing anybody and pissing them off.

Did the collapsed oil filter cause the engine failure or did the engine failure cause the oil filter to collapse?

Personally I think the engine went and the metal destroyed the filter. That's only because I don't think that an engine in proper working order would be generating enough metal in the oil to cause such catastrophic failure in such a short time regardless of the condition of the filter.

But the bypass should have been used which is in the filter; when the filter collapsed the bypass also went and thus you then had a lubrication failure. Could the suction generated cause a filter to collapse? Yes. I have seen where a fuel pump on a motorcycle collapsed the fuel tank.

That engine didn't die in that 20 mile trip, it had an issue before then. That 20 miles was just where the issue then became noticeable. What the OP also needs to find out, were any of the codes being cleared dealt with oil pressure. The oil pressure had to be low; no oil going through the filter and bypass destroyed it would have to impact the oil pressure reading.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

But the bypass should have been used which is in the filter; when the filter collapsed the bypass also went and thus you then had a lubrication failure. Could the suction generated cause a filter to collapse? Yes. I have seen where a fuel pump on a motorcycle collapsed the fuel tank.

That engine didn't die in that 20 mile trip, it had an issue before then. That 20 miles was just where the issue then became noticeable. What the OP also needs to find out, were any of the codes being cleared dealt with oil pressure. The oil pressure had to be low; no oil going through the filter and bypass destroyed it would have to impact the oil pressure reading.

The bypass is actually inside the filter? Are you sure of this?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Emden

The bypass is actually inside the filter? Are you sure of this?

It is not in the filter. On my 3.0, it was in the filter housing. Assume the 4.8 is the same.

[Emden]

Originally Posted by trader4

I'd like to know on what basis Ian thinks the filter bypass is in the filter. That would seem to be totally illogical. I thought they generally have
some kind of pressure relief valve n the lubrication system itself, which
opens if the filter clogs.

Also, if oil starvation were the cause of this failure, then one would think
that besides just a brief CEL, the car would be displaying a clearly visible
low oil pressure warning. IDK exactly what they would throw up on the
dash, but it seems reasonable that some kind of urgent warning of
impending disaster, to stop driving, would be clearly visible. From what
he says, there was never even a hint of this, so I doubt oil starvation
was the cause of the failure. But then BMW is suggesting that it could
be, either honestly or just to get themselves off the hook.

And there is a good chance that collapsed filter is actually crushed,
from the top of a previous filter being stuck in the filter cover, as I
posted in another reply.

I called two more BMW dealers today. They both say Hengst manufactures the stock oil filters for the x5. So what the dealer in Madison told me is nothing but a bald faced lie.