Any 35D Owners install this performance tune?

[2011_X5_35D]

Originally Posted by Kloogy

Would you like the tuner to assume responsibility for you dialing up the boost and blowing up you vehicle ? You realize how many people go ape shit with these devices and push them to the limit . Then they show up to the dealership wondering why they fried their engine or other components. Maybe you think the tuner should assume responsibility. In this litigious society, anyone who has any kind of a business has to protect themselves from lawsuits.

DiNAN Does (not dialing a boost, but software part)....That why i hope DINAN comes out with something soon....3K with warranty and "Hopefully" better resale value Shi$ I just spend 70K on a truck...

[Kloogy]

Go do some reading on Dinan. FYI BMW has denied warranty work on people with Dinan mods too. Then you get stuck chasing down Dinan for your claim. It's your money. Since you spent $70k for a Diesel SUV, you must know what's best. All us other rubes have no clue with our $69,999 trucks.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Kloogy

Where did Lucky Charms come up with these inflammatory claims of tunes being simple "resistors"? Been hitting the scotch a little too hard ?

A piggy-back tune that simply modifies one or more sensor signals is......a resistor. In the case of the JBD, there is a dial to adjust the performance gain, so it isn't just a resistor, it is also a rheostat, ie a variable resistor.

You may be referring to a flash tune, ie a new map. That is not what is being discussed here.

[2011_X5_35D]

Originally Posted by Kloogy

Since you spent $70k for a Diesel SUV, you must know what's best. All us other rubes have no clue with our $69,999 trucks.

Oh boy...

My point was I would like to get something that would not void my warranty for reasonable price with some power increase.... or save my money and get X5M in couple years...

[2011_X5_35D]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Yea, pretty much - Dinan's software voids your BMW-provided warranty and it is then up to Dinan whether they want to fix your car or not. Also the Dinan's warranty only works for new vehicles not older than 4 years or with less than 50k miles, whichever comes first. After that, you're pretty much screwed:
"In the event of a warranty claim, Dinan will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective Dinan component upon receipt of the item and proof of the original purchase in the form of a lawful invoice. This warranty does not include reimbursement for repairs to any original vehicle manufacturer's component(s) that may have been affected by a Dinan component."

My local BMW dealer install Dinan in there shop ... go figure...Why would they do that?

[2011_X5_35D]

Originally Posted by JCL

A piggy-back tune that simply modifies one or more sensor signals is......a resistor. In the case of the JBD, there is a dial to adjust the performance gain, so it isn't just a resistor, it is also a rheostat, ie a variable resistor.

Learn something NEW already..

[JCL]

Originally Posted by 2011_X5_35D

Look, all of us are trying to learn something here. He is only person that actually know thing or two about this little black boxes if you know something please point me to a section on their web site were it explains how this "black box" works. I just spent a half hour on their web site reading the installation manual
and there is no explanation how this works. "Magic" maybe .... resistor who cares... am I willing to put this black box in my car with out "ANY" technical explanation HELL NO...

but I did read their TERMS AND CONDITIONS

WITHOUT LIMITATION TO THE FORGOING: (I) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT USE OF THE PRODUCT MAY VOID ANY OR ALL WARRANTIES APPLICABLE TO ANY VEHICLE IN WHICH A PRODUCT IS INSTALLED AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY VOIDED WARRANTIES RELATED TO OUR ARISING OUT OF USE OF A PRODUCT; (II) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT PRODUCTS MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO ANY VEHICLE IN WHICH SUCH PRODUCTS ARE INSTALLED AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY DAMAGE TO A VEHICLE ALLEGEDLY CAUSED BY A PRODUCT; AND, (III) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES AND HEREBY AGREES THAT PURCHASER IS FAMILIAR WITH AND AGREES TO COMPLY WITH ANY LAWS, RULES OR REGULATIONS RELATED TO PRODUCTS (“APPLICABLE LAWS”) AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY ALLEGATION THAT PURCHASER FAILED TO COMPLY WITH APPLICABLE LAWS.

You didn't mention the note on their site where they ask the purchaser to acknowledge that the tuned engine no longer meets emissions regulations (for those that care or are tested annually on such things).

As to how it works, the developer of the JBD tune has stated that they are primarily adding more fuel, and not doing much of anything with the boost level. They are adjusting a sensor signal (temperature or some another one) to pump more fuel in. That's it.

The tune is relatively low-tech, but purchasers seem to be very happy with it, including some members here. To me, a good indication of the level of sophistication of the tune is that many of them are sold in a package with a code reader tool that is advertised as being able to clear all codes (including the three current 'tuner detection' codes). Instructions say to simply use the BT tool to clear codes whenever they happen. The developer has said that there is a wide variability in tolerances between different vehicles, and that some vehicles show no codes at 100%, while others show codes at 50%. They ship it at around 60%, and say to just turn the dial down until you don't get any codes, or turn it up as you like. That all sounds very unsophisticated to me, it is simply a trial and error software development program.

There haven't been many reported problems with these types of tunes, at reasonable power increases, so it is hard to argue with the basic approach they are taking. I would personally prefer a tune that has safeties built in, but that requires intelligence in the box, and it ends up costing more (ie Procede). I would also pay a premium for the Dinan software, but only if I purchased the Dinan package from the same dealer that I purchased the vehicle from, so that there is less risk of warranty claims being diverted. Other purchasers may just want the most hp for the lowest $$, risks be damned.

[ard]

Originally Posted by 2011_X5_35D

Oh boy...

My point was I would like to get something that would not void my warranty for reasonable price with some power increase.... or save my money and get X5M in couple years...

There is NO PRODUCT that will not "void" the BMW warranty. Period.

As discussed above, Dinan has a supplemental warranty- better than nothing.

Any tuner that says "undetectable" or "will not void the warranty" is a liar. (see note)

It is really astonishingly simple:

Pay to play- assume you might blow up the engine. (People have blown up tuned motors at partial throttle and not "flogging' the car...)

Buy the absolute best tune- which is a total 'bottom up' reprogram of the DDE that allows the computer to accurately respond to actual conditions and parameters- ie no "fooling" sensors. Remap, refuel, etc.

A

Note: When an engine is 'over-clocked' so to speak, the response of the DDE- increased boost, operating parameters- are all stored in the DDE memory. In the BMW TSB about "aftermarket programming" BMW encourages techs to look for evidence. I've heard techs will get bonuses when they find a violator...

[JCL]

I agree with Ard's comments, above. I wouldn't use the term 'void', but rather 'impact', when referring to manufacturer's warranty, but we are splitting hairs.

I spend some time following the threads at e90post in the forced induction forum. It makes for good reading. Some of the periodic BMW software updates added 'tuner detection codes' for lack of a better phrase, flags that mark that a tune was installed. Tuners responsed by providing a tool that clears them, as well as CEL faults. More and more detection methods will keep coming, and tuners will keep trying to figure out how to beat them. The stakes are rising for manufacturers, and they won't just sit and watch it. They will manage their warranty exposure. Recently a BMW customer went in for maintenance, and had his tune detected. He was surprised, as he had cleared all codes immediately prior to visiting the dealer. Turns out that the OBD goes through a reset after clearing codes, and the catalytic converter readiness flag takes up to 50 miles to reset, depending on temperature. So, they caught him for having recently cleared codes. Pretty funny, actually. In his case, the dealer didn't report him to BMW and flag his warranty, they called him and told him to come get his car before they did that. They gave him a break. I think they were making a point.

All of the history is in the DME/DDE, and can always be pulled out. For some data, it takes the factory to do that instead of the dealer, but it is always possible. Some tuners are claiming that if you don't let them take out your box and send it to the factory, it can't be detected. In my business whenever we had field follow (new test) units, we linked them up to the factory remotely for troubleshooting and flash upgrades. I don't see why BMW wouldn't have the same capability.

[Kloogy]

It's a cat and mouse game. It used to be mufflers, intakes and removing CATs. Now its more sophisticated. You can't blame BMW for protecting their financial well being. If you want zero risks and issues , do not modify your vehicle. The one thing I was told by a tech is that X5 drivers can get away with more since they are not considered targets for tuners. But I'm sure if you went in with a serious issue, they would look.