They don't have a MSRP yet, so I put 1k down on one and we'll discuss pricing when the final specs are ordered, I have a feeling that I'm only going to get about 3 g's off sticker at the most because my dealer is only getting 10 over 3 years I think is what they said. So basically I'm on the waiting list to get on the waiting list which I did back in December, so about 7 months ago, I'm #2 on the list and theoretically should have it late September. I drove the V-6, it's pretty tight, it's no 3 series though, it's twitchy at its limits, and it's like 6 seconds to 60 which is far too slow for a sedan in these days.

The engine has a different supercharger and the internals are not beefed up as much as the corvette so there's not really that much room for mods and the MPG is just a preliminary estimate, but that makes sense FSETH

bong... bong... bong...

Thank you for the great information:thumbup:

I know that sounds awfully arrogant, but it is true. The CTS-V is no M3/M5. Lets be honest about it. Great car though, but not as complete or refined of an automibile as an M car. Even you as a die hard GM guy have to admit that. You may not have liked my wording and I can understand that.

Also, it doesnt really matter why GM doesn't make cars like BMW's, or if it is by choice. The point is that they don't and that is precisely my point, they don't. Once again great step for American sedan, but there is a big difference in German sports cars/luxury cars/sports sedans compared to American cars. German bread and butter are sport sedans and luxury sedans. American bread and butter are cars for the masses and trucks/SUV's. Sure they make some products that step outside that box, like the Corvette and such, but generally speaking. Once again, just my opinion. As far as value goes, how much is a new CTS-V? It has to be over $45-55k? What is the MSRP on an M3 sedan $54K? Well worth it in my book. Especially when you consider resale value.

I am not even going to try to argue about the Vette's value, though. It is one of the best performing cars at any price, for sure.

Fseth..Don't worry about it man...I'm in total agreeance with you.. Just like you said..It doesn't matter if GM "chooses" not to make cars like BMW's...the fact is they don't...

Thats like saying, yeah I'm fully capable of scoring 30 pts a night in a BBall game without a doubt, but I "choose" to only score 20...Yeah ok, so basically you possess the ability to be great, but you just don't want to play hard to be at that level..Thats even worse then never having the ability at all!!!

The CTS-V is a fantastic vehicle...but its not on the level of an M...And since GM "chooses" (per Gresch) not to step their game up consistantly...It will never be on the level of an M...

If you don't drive it how can you have such a strong postion?

I should be able to drive one in the next month or so because they were mentioning having a tester for people who had already ordered one, so if I get the opportunity I'll post a full review.

I think G's point is GM doesn't choose to price its rides at 65K or better, like the M3 does or near the 100K mark like a M6/M5. It's not as if you aren't paying hand over fist for that "refinement".

You are killing me Blue. If you are just fanning the fire, it worked.

Let's see. MB, Audi and others have been chasing the M3 for years. Sure both have made cars that outperform it in certain catagories (just like the CTS-V does), but as a whole package the M3 has been the benchmark for quite some time now. There is something intangible about the M3's driving experience (any generation) that other companies can't seem to duplicate and the overall driving experience is what the M3 is all about. A great performance car is not just about the number, but how the car goes about doing it's business. I can assure you that Caddy didn't do in 2 attempts with the CTS-V, what MB and Audi havn't been able to do for decades. Bottom line, there is a big difference between American and German cars.

Look back at the previous generation M3 and CTS-V now that the dust has settled on the CTS-V's newness. Which is the better driving experience? Which ones are still in demand? Which would you rather own? Which gives the more rewarding overall driving experience? I think the choice is very clear and when the dust settles on this new CTS-V the outcome will be the same. Monster car with tons of power, but not an M3. History has a way of repeating itself.

Really this is a silly point arguing over as the M3 and CTS-V are two totally different cars and most people buying either one aren't going to shop the other. Two totally different types of drivers with different desires.