I agree with everything you said but still think that the book is open until you drive it and or have real comparison tests. I am not trying to kill you or give you hard just think and hope that GM has a winner. :thumbup:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s_v/index.html

What about hte Caddy XLR Roadster @ $82k? You could buy that or a 650i convert for the same price? Which would you chose? Which one is the better overall car?

What G said was also like saying where is Ferrari's sub $70k M3 beater?

Of course you pay for refinement. I never said the M3 was cheap. If it were a cost contest the Caddy would win (only by a few grand), but we were talking about the better car, not the cheaper car.

I would bet that they do have a winner and believe it or not, I am very happy that an American auto maker has stepped up to the plate and made a car like this. I think it is great and it is a beastly car.

This stuff is all subjective and opinion anyway. I didn't mean to waste everyone's time arguing about it. The world would be a boring place if there weren't any cars other than BMW driving around.

This is car group, arguing about cars is good, I love my BMW, always wanted one, never a Caddy, but I still have hope.

I thought we were discussing overall product, and that includes costs. You found one Cadillac that cost over 80K, still far below the price of a M5/6. The point has been made, in opinion the BMW could be considered a better overall car as long as you didn't mind the 20-30% higher cost. G's point is the senseless "this must be a lesser vehicle" attitude instead of a more open minded, "..all that for $50K??"

You could make the same argument in favor of a Hyundai Genesis :)

IMO and my experience with BMW from the multitude I've had, they build very good overall packages, their electronics suck and will never be as good as a Japanese ride, their price is far higher then any US and standard model Asian rides. Their competition is MB and Audi, and that is who they were focusing on. BMW IMO now looks very hard at competition from Acura/Lexus when deciding a new line-up. What does that say? Have I had better, cheaper cars then BMW? IMO yes, my 350Z hands down was nicer then my E46 M3 IMO..handled better by far and after $1,500 in mods it put down better power numbers (still only costing me a total under $30,000). My 996, while cool and fun, couldn't hold a candle to the 350Z for what I wanted. My 5 and 6 had more electrical and configuration issues then I'd ever seen on a BMW. So.....does BMW build a superior car? Probably, when it actually does everything it was designed to do. Does the Roundel on the hood automatically make it superior to "lesser" models? Not in my opinion. Is cost a factor in comparing the vehicles? Most definitely. You can't over look it and if you can, you should be giving more to charity :)

Test-drove the CTS. Was very impressed. Told them to call me when they got the V in.

To make a blanket statement about a car without test-driving it is, well... dumb. To likewise say that GM can't build a car to compete with BMW is just as ignorant. Shit, look at the Vette!

I love bimmers, but as Gresch said, I'm a car guy first and foremost. If the CTS-V delivers, I will certainly consider it.

Juan

A friend of mine's dad owns a car dealership. He was trying to get me to buy one of his cars. At that time, I was looking for an X5. He wanted to buy some SUV they had, because it was cheaper. I said no thanks, and his answer was "that's cool. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla. Everyone has different tastes". I agree with his comment.

Now, that said, it is ridiculous to dismiss it out of hand due to its badge. I for one traded in my X5 for the first gen CTS-V. It's not without its problems, to be sure. It beat the shit out of a 540 (different cars), and the stupid I-drive did nothing for me. Since then, people have lemoned their M5's over the SMG. No car is totally trouble free (I don't know first hand, but I seem to remember something about M3's burning up too).

On my block, there are a couple M5's and E55. They are old news.

If I wanted, I could buy either of those. My wife wants me to buy and Aston Martin. I think they are overpriced given their performance. Having the badge doesn't impress me - I want a car that I want to drive.

I think the same thing about the XLR - overpriced for what it delivers.

So, cheap vs expensive is not really the issue, nor will it be for many buyers of this car.

I have the #1 delivery slot for the V at my dealer. BTW - orders will start in August, with first deliveries in November.

As I said, some like chocolate, and some like vanilla.

Also, like I said, I didn't intend to start a flame war. The Nissan GTR guys like to do that on the Cadillac forum.

And, for the record, the X5 (and the 325 and the 535 before it) was one of the best cars I've ever driven. See, no BMW hating from me.

:thumbup:

Good post, YwlJacket!
BR,mD

You screen name is blue. :stickpoke


Carry on.