Hey don't link us Muslims to that... - Page 16

Eric5273 · #**151** 08-15-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebound

I'd be interested to see per capita. I know we have a lot. We also have a lot of people. I'll see if I can pull up some data.

From the encyclopedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r..._United_States

As of 2004 the United States had the highest percentage of people in prison of any nation. At a rate of incarceration of 726 inmates per 100,000, the United States has the highest reported rate in the world, well ahead of the Russian rate of 532 per 100,000. In 2004, more than 2.1 million Americans, or roughly 1 out of every 138, were in prisons or jails, a figure which represented one third of the world's prison population. To illustrate these figures, if the United States had the same rate of incarceration as Japan or China, only about 100,000 people would be in jail.

So we have less than 5% of the world's total population, but 33% of the world's prison population.

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Wagner · #**152** 08-15-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

From the encyclopedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r..._United_States

As of 2004 the United States had the highest percentage of people in prison of any nation. At a rate of incarceration of 726 inmates per 100,000, the United States has the highest reported rate in the world, well ahead of the Russian rate of 532 per 100,000. In 2004, more than 2.1 million Americans, or roughly 1 out of every 138, were in prisons or jails, a figure which represented one third of the world's prison population. To illustrate these figures, if the United States had the same rate of incarceration as Japan or China, only about 100,000 people would be in jail.

So we have less than 5% of the world's total population, but 33% of the world's prison population.

Probably has a lot to do with th United States simply not shooting people in the street. Take a look at other countries and see how they deal with crime. The United States is one of the few that actually will imprison people. Other nations simply kill them and call it a day. That is the difference. It is easy to say 'this country has the highest prison poplulation' when you don't have to quote what numbers other nations simply take out of the game.

Another note:
Can't remember the exact amount of days but Britain can hold you in jail without charges for weeks, the USA only has 48 hours before they have to let you go.

drex · #**153** 08-15-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker

Riiiiiiiiiiight...................

That's all fine and dandy if you want to compare yourself to a list of broken-down, troubled regions in the world. It's kind of like standing Rosie O'Donnell next to a bunch of circus freaks and declaring her the winner of a beauty pageant IMO.

Well here are the stats from Canada's 2001 census:
English (20.17%)
French (15.75%)
Scottish (14.03%)
Irish (12.90%)
German (9.25%)
Italian (4.29%)
Chinese (3.69%)
Ukrainian (3.61%)
First Nations (3.38%)
Dutch (3.12%)
Polish (2.76%)
East Indian (2.41%)
Black African (2.23%)
Norwegian (1.23%)
Portuguese (1.21%)
Welsh(1.18%)
Jewish (1.18%)
Russian (1.14%)
Filipino (1.11%)
Métis (1.04%)
Swedish (0.95%)
Hungarian (0.90%)

We may not have the same population demographic as the U.S. but it is still very diverse. Not sure what any of this has to do with a countries propensity for violence and crime, unless it is your contention that it is the immigrant population who is largely responsible for crime rates?

considering i am 1/2 immigrant (1971) and 1/2 immigrant (1700s), you question is what?

all americans are immigrant with the exception of the few north american indians who remain here today.

aren't you lucky it is us at your southern border, and not mexico, or iran, or iraq?

drex · #**154** 08-15-2006, 05:48 PM

most of those countries would consider themselves industrialized. specifically, all.

also, what you list below is not a war. no congressional resolution/presdential declaration/etc. yes, possibly foreign policy, but not war. the USSR and china have a very similar list, only four times longer.

your point?

here's my suggestion. why don't you go over to Lebanon and talk with Hezbollah? come back and tell us what they say....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Whether or not they declare it as an "official" war, I do not care. Sending troops overseas and attacking a country is considered "war".

So besides the ones you list, we have:

1956: Marines sent into Egypt to seize control of Suez Canal.

1958: 14,000 Marines occupy Lebanon and fight against rebels

1958: Marines sent to Panama to protect dictatorship from rebels

1959: Marines sent to Haiti to protect dictator from communist rebels - they stay in Haiti until 1963

1960: Covert special ops team invades Conga and overthrows and assassinates democractically elected Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba

1962: 5,000 Marines sent to Thailand to fight against communist rebels

1964: Marines again sent to Panama again to prop up dictatorship

1964: Marines sent to Brazil to give support for military coup and overthrow of democratically elected president

1965: 20,000 Marines sent to the Dominican Republic to help the dictatorship fight against rebels. Air Force also bombs. Marines stay there for more than a year.

1968-1970: US Air Force bombs Cambodia

1970: US troops participate along with Iranian marines as they invade Oman

1970: US troops invade Cambodia

1971: US Air Force carpet-bombs Laos

1975: US Air Force bombs Cambodia again

1976: US troops assist South-African backed rebels in Angola

1981: US troops invade El Salvador to help dictatorship fight against rebels

1983: Marines invade and occupy Greneda

1986: US Air Force bombs Libya

1989: Marines invade Panama and overthrow General Noriega's dictatorship and install new dictatorship

1992: US troops invade Somalia to help fight against one faction in a civil war

1998: US Air Force bombs Sudan and Afghanistan

2001: US troops invade Afghanistan after a month-long bombing campaign

2003: US troops invade Liberia and remove President Charles Taylor from power

2004: US troops invade Haiti and remove democratically elected president Aristide from power

And that is not even counting all the covert operations such as the support for Al-Queda in Afghanistan during the 1980s, or support for the Contras, or support for various military coups like the one in Chile in 1973.

If you notice, I said "industrialized countries". Your list there is a bunch of third world countries and a few former soviet republics. But I suppose the former soviet republics qualify as industrialized.

Care to post the murder rates for the countries in Western Europe, or for Canada, or even Japan or China? You know...countries that are on par with the United States as far as what we consider "civilized".

Yes, and we just keep packing more and more people away in jails. In 1973, there were 7 prisons here in New York State. Today there are 73 prisons in New York State. And the population of New York has not grown since 1973. The rest of the country has seen a similar trend.

DINANM3 · #**155** 08-15-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drex

considering i am 1/2 immigrant (1971) and 1/2 immigrant (1700s), you question is what?

all americans are immigrant with the exception of the few north american indians who remain here today.

aren't you lucky it is us at your southern border, and not mexico, or iran, or iraq?

I agree. Canada would not be what it is today with out the US at its border. And if we werent here you would also have to get a decent army to protect yourselves. Why the hell do you think no one will ever invade your country. Because they know the USA will be there in like an hour with a tank up there ass.

rebound · #**156** 08-15-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Probably has a lot to do with th United States simply not shooting people in the street. Take a look at other countries and see how they deal with crime. The United States is one of the few that actually will imprison people. Other nations simply kill them and call it a day. That is the difference. It is easy to say 'this country has the highest prison poplulation' when you don't have to quote what numbers other nations simply take out of the game.

Interesting info that supports what you're saying:

Problematic comparisons

Comparing recorded crime rates between countries is fraught with difficulties. This is so for a number of reasons:
Countries have different legal and criminal justice systems. Crime definitions vary from one country to the next. For example, a serious assault in one country could be recorded as an attempted murder somewhere else. Moreover, what constitutes a recordable crime in one country might not be a criminal offence in another.

The likelihood of victims reporting crime, and the police recording them, is not the same in every country. Crime victims are less likely to report crime in a country with an oppressive or incompetent police force than in a country where the police is helpful and trustworthy. The distances people have to travel to the nearest police station, and the availability of transport to get there, is another factor which can affect crime reporting rates.

Multiple offences are not recorded uniformly in all countries. In some countries only the most serious offence reported in a single incident is recorded while in others all offences reported are recorded.

Differences in data quality between countries is also a factor. In developed countries recorded crimes are entered in a computerised database and channelled to a central point for analysis. In many less developed countries crime statistics are recorded on paper which can easily result in the loss of some of the statistics.

Crime statistics are only one measurement of police performance — and a limited one at that. Victim surveys are another valuable measurement and should be used in conjunction with crime statistics to make up for the shortcomings of the former. Victim surveys provide information on crimes which have not been reported to the police. It is estimated that victim surveys uncover between 60% and 70% more crime than that reported by official sources.

Link to Full Article

JCL · #**157** 08-15-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drex

considering i am 1/2 immigrant (1971) and 1/2 immigrant (1700s), you question is what?

all americans are immigrant with the exception of the few north american indians who remain here today.

aren't you lucky it is us at your southern border, and not mexico, or iran, or iraq?

Canadians pretty much fit the same profile, unless one is aboriginal one is an immigrant or a descendent of an immigrant. I think the point was that if the US is peace-loving, why is the violent crime rate 3 x that of its northern neighbour. The counterpoint was that Canada was apparently a white-bread society, without an ethnic mix like the US. Pure BS. Hence the ethnic mix chart. Perhaps a better slice is the number of new citizens per capita. See the link. (I should credit the poster who first used nationmaster; it is nice and easy to use)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/im...ips-per-capita

Now we are probably going to hear that all the crime in the US is from illegal aliens.

As to your second point, I don't have a comment on which country I would rather have at my border, but know that for all the ribbing we give the USA (peace-loving?), I highly value the relations that our two countries and peoples maintain. That long, unguarded border is a precious thing.

Eric5273 · #**158** 08-15-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drex

most of those countries would consider themselves industrialized. specifically, all.

also, what you list below is not a war. no congressional resolution/presdential declaration/etc. yes, possibly foreign policy, but not war.

Label it what you want. It is violence, which was my original point. I know our government would love to promote the idea "do as I say, not as I do", but unfortunately it does not work that way. The government sets the example and the people follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drex

the USSR and china have a very similar list, only four times longer.

Do you really believe that?

My list had 24 examples on it. 4 times longer would mean 96.

Ok...go ahead. Why don't you start with China...

I cannot think of any examples of China sending their military to another country to attack during the last 50 years.

As far as the USSR, I can think of three: Hungary, Poland, and Afghanistan

But I would not consider those 2 countries as particularly "peaceful" countries either.

Parker · #**159** 08-15-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINANM3

I agree. Canada would not be what it is today with out the US at its border. And if we werent here you would also have to get a decent army to protect yourselves. Why the hell do you think no one will ever invade your country. Because they know the USA will be there in like an hour with a tank up there ass.

Guys, I am not complaining about having the US as a neighbor as our similarities are far greater than our differences.
That being said, a: we have a decent army; b: no one wants to invade us and if they did it would only be as a launching point for an offensive against the USA and c: with all the investment you guys have in our natural resources of course you would defend Canada as if it were part of your own country to protect your financial interests as well as point b above. .

alpac · #**160** 08-15-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drex

Damn keyboard.

I thought you were Mexican, especially with that accent!

Actually, I have been with and met Tijanaw, and I can tell you, personally, that although he is Muslim and I Catholic, he is still my brother, and know that we both respect each other's beliefs, and rights thereof.

<even though he is mexican!>!

Mexican from Senegal ??

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