with Christmas around the corner.... - Page 5

Thunder22 · #41 12-06-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

I don't have a Christmas Tree issue, I love them (I have one) BUT I see no issue with it being called a Holiday Tree.

I don't get offended if someone says "Happy Hannukah" but if it makes B-line feel better to call it a Holiday Tree, I see no issue with that.

B Is right about the knee-jerk reaction about the Christian Right. People are sick of them pushing their views on everyone, it's annoying.

Then they say "those gays are pushing their views on us" I always counter with, we are not pushing, we are defending ourselves from YOU

Is there any topic that can be discussed on here that doesn't result in you bringing up your sexual orientation? Just asking....

That being said, the vast majority of people who put up a CHRISTMAS tree are not religious right extremists.

I'm really getting effing sick and tired of anti-Christian/Catholic rhetoric. If 1/10th of the stereotypical comments that are made about Christians/Catholics were made about any other group, it would be on the front page of every newpaper in the country. The religious right does not represent every Christian/Catholic. They are more visible because they are extremists, and EVERY group has their extremists, good and bad.

I think i'm done with this thread, and I've now been inspired to go buy and put up a Christmas Tree this year.

Merry Christmas.

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Wagner · #42 12-06-2008, 08:46 AM

I have three Christmas trees, one done in Hanukah decorations...I haven't been to church in 7 years....so please....STFU and stop trying to ruin everone else's good time.. <directed to the masses>

realchef · #43 12-06-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

I have three Christmas trees, one done in Hanukah decorations...I haven't been to church in 7 years....so please....STFU and stop trying to ruin everone else's good time.. <directed to the masses>

I'll repeat myself:
Wanger, you'se better get a pic of staten quick.
....duh!!

StatenX5 · #44 12-06-2008, 09:17 PM

why do u want my pic dude???

i'll post it if u want it.

seriously.

blondboinsd · #45 12-06-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresch

Is there any topic that can be discussed on here that doesn't result in you bringing up your sexual orientation? Just asking....

That being said, the vast majority of people who put up a CHRISTMAS tree are not religious right extremists.

I'm really getting effing sick and tired of anti-Christian/Catholic rhetoric. If 1/10th of the stereotypical comments that are made about Christians/Catholics were made about any other group, it would be on the front page of every newpaper in the country. The religious right does not represent every Christian/Catholic. They are more visible because they are extremists, and EVERY group has their extremists, good and bad.

I think i'm done with this thread, and I've now been inspired to go buy and put up a Christmas Tree this year.

Merry Christmas.

I don't think anyone (and certainly not I) implied or said that. That would be 100% wrong, my comments had to due with the negative reactions I think we are seeing to the right wing extremists and the media is show casing it this season.

I think everyone should have the right to live as they see fit AS long as they don't feel the need to try and remove rights/equality from others.

I love the Holidays, I have a Christmas Tree, Lights etc but I was very careful to buy general Holiday cards so everyone feels included.

statdoc · #46 12-07-2008, 10:10 AM

There is no "separation of church and state" in the US Constitution. Period. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ..." That means no official state religion, which is contrary to what had always been the case elsewhere (including England). This was to keep gov out of religion, not religion out of gov.

E61Silver · #47 12-07-2008, 10:29 AM

Happy Holidays everyone.

Wagner · #48 12-07-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statdoc

There is no "separation of church and state" in the US Constitution. Period. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ..." That means no official state religion, which is contrary to what had always been the case elsewhere (including England). This was to keep gov out of religion, not religion out of gov.

Woohoo. Someone actually read the document. 100% correct. The founding fathers were all VERY religious people. But they knew that allowing a government to dictate religion could only lead to problems, however, they did not say that the vast principles and practices of the nation may be religious based...only that the GOVT could not dictate the religion.

Again, you can learn a lot from your currency: Masonic symbols along with "in God we Trust". That isn't there for "flair"

B-Line · #49 12-07-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

I have three Christmas trees, one done in Hanukah decorations...I haven't been to church in 7 years....so please....STFU and stop trying to ruin everone else's good time.. <directed to the masses>

I agree with you Wagner. And I don't believe it's in anyones benefit to bastardize Christmas.
- I'm just debating the other side cause I understand the argument.

I like Christmas. Before my wife converted to Jewish, I used to get her a Christmas tree and every year, I make a big Christmas dinner for all my friends.
Personally I believe ALL religions are a ton of nonsense. Including my own. That's why I'm not religious in any way shape or form. My identity to my religion is cultural, not spiritual.

But I do try to be sensitive to those who also think differently. Not everyone celebrates Christmas and those that don't also have a right to their opinion. Especially if things are being paid for by the taxpayer.

p.s. - Statdoc:

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]
The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.[3] The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878,[4] and then in a series of cases starting in 1948.[5] This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

statdoc · #50 12-07-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

p.s. - Statdoc:

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]
The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.[3] The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878,[4] and then in a series of cases starting in 1948.[5] This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

Thanks, B-line, but I know this area quite well. Interesting that when folks wish to support their chosen non-existent Constitutional tenet, they are quite happy to pull out the writings of the Founding Fathers to explain the mindset and flesh out the meaning. However, when others do the same, it is sometimes said "If it isn't in the Const, it doesn't count!". Let's quote a bit more of the Wikipedia article you are quoting:

Another early user of the term was James Madison, the principal drafter of the United States Bill of Rights, who often wrote of "total separation of the church from the state."[12] "Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States," Madison wrote,[13] and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States."[14] In a letter to Edward Livingston Madison further expanded, "We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt." [15] This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, originally authored by Thomas Jefferson, but championed by Madison, and guaranteeing that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities. [16]

So, again I state, the First Amendment provision protects religion from gov interference, and people from being forced to practice one form or another.

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