Why American car companies suck - Page 12

B-Line · #**111** 03-17-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivinLoudX54.4

Let me ask you this. When the first X5 M hits a dealer near you, you go in there ask them to test drive it, they say no. What do you do not buy it?

Happy to answer your question. Hope I can articulate it well.

Yes, if dealer doesn't let me test drive the car, I don't buy it. And while people have had different experiences than I have, I have NEVER been in a situation where BMW didn't let me test drive a vehicle, even if it was M series, even if it was a brand new model type. Unless of course the car was buried or on the showroom floor. Usually they have a model right up front and ready to go.

Second, I would never negotiate a car on site. That is how sales people and finance managers "work" you. They have all the facts and you have none. If they say the money factor buy rate is .00385, how can I argue it? Unless of course I can do my research and home and say, NO, that's not the buy rate, you are trying to add points to the deal.
- Or is a dealership going to say, our buy rate is .00022 but we will give you the car for .00125. No, that never happens, NEVER, not with any dealer.

All dealerships sweeten the deal with information that you don't know. That you don't know that you can go to Suntrust directly and get car financing without going through the dealer. That you can lease from third party financiers if they don't give you the factory buy rate.

Any time I get a dealer who is not willing to give me the numbers by phone, and by numbers I mean:
MONEY FACTOR
RESIDUAL
BANK ACQ FEE
Monthly Payment..
Minimum Drive off, etc. I know I'm dealing with someone who is not being forthright, who doesn't want me to price shop because there is more room on the deal.

So my point is, NO TEST DRIVE, NO HONESTY, NO ANSWERS to my very direct and very educated purchase questions, NO DEAL.

I don't play the game by the rules the sales people and financier managers try to set up. That's like going to a poker table where one person at the table knows what the turn card is going to be.

If they want to sell cars to other people that way and their allright with it, fine. But I'm not going to take anyones "word" that they are giving me the lowest rates until I have checked and double checked with other sources.

So maybe a savvy buyer is not what Cadillac is hoping for. But I don't play those silly Sales Person/Finance Managers game.

And yes, they have the right to not allow me to test drive a car and they also have the right to refuse my business. And I have the right to go on the internet on a site like YELP and review the dealership for what it's worth.

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LeMansX5 · #**112** 03-17-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

Agreed, along with all those that think Hyundai is a POS.

I heard Merc-Benz hired the guy who designed Hyundai Genesis.

FSETH · #**113** 03-17-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMansX5

I heard Merc-Benz hired the guy who designed Hyundai Genesis.

If that is true, that is soooo funny! Asian automakers have been copying and stealing ideas from the Europeans for years. It is basically what has made companies like Lexus what they are today. If it is going the other way now, they are getting what they deserve.

JCL · #**114** 03-18-2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.6is Ryder

ylwjacket....here is some food for thought. Why is it easy to go and test drive a 100k BMW vs trying to drive a 60k GM car? Please find the answer and get back to us. Oh yeah....the ironic part, the 100k company doesn't have it's paws out waiting for you to keep them afloat. Seems like it would be fairly easy for them to say, sorry no test drive. So why does the 60k company have it's hands in your pockets and trying get more??????.......Phil

For the same reason that it is almost always easier to borrow a million than it is to borrow 100k, which in turn is much easier than borrowing 10k. And that is even before you consider that there is more profit for the dealer in the 100k vehicle than the 60k vehicle, so they can spend that margin on demo miles.

If the 60k vehicle is on allocation, as mentioned above, they can likely sell all they need to without running up demo miles. Demos cost the dealer money. If the car supply exceeds demand, then I see your point. But if demand exceeds supply, then the dealer might in fact be making a smart business decision.

Once again, I didn't know the dealers were getting bailouts, I thought it was the manufacturers. They aren't the same.

blondboinsd · #**115** 03-18-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresch

Anyone who thinks that a CTS-V is an entry level vehicle is an idiot.

The World is FULL of idiots. I personally would be impressed with a CTS-V (assuming I would get a test drive around corners etc) but most people would view anything Cadillac besides the Escalade as status-lacking.

LeMansX5 · #**116** 03-18-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH

If that is true, that is soooo funny! Asian automakers have been copying and stealing ideas from the Europeans for years. It is basically what has made companies like Lexus what they are today. If it is going the other way now, they are getting what they deserve.

MB is in hiring mood, they also just hired the BMW designer, Karim Habib who designed new F01 7-series.

lo_jack · #**117** 03-18-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

The World is FULL of idiots. I personally would be impressed with a CTS-V (assuming I would get a test drive around corners etc) but most people would view anything Cadillac besides the Escalade as status-lacking.

Besides the numerical reasons JCL just posted, this could be part of the reason you cannot simply waltz in and drive one. Status is in some part a function of availability. If everyone had a CTSV, who would want to go drive one? This is SOP for GM vehicles they want to market as special. You can probably go test a Z06, but unless you are going to take delivery, I bet you would have a hard time getting a ZR1.

I do see your point though Phil, and thanks for the invitation. Comparatively, I can see how you would be disinclined to work with someone who would not let you try the product.

I was actually more interested in driving the X6 out in front of the Katy dealership, but only because it is so odd. The proportions intrigue me. You can see it from the highway quite plainly.

blondboinsd · #**118** 03-18-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lo_jack

Besides the numerical reasons JCL just posted, this could be part of the reason you cannot simply waltz in and drive one. Status is in some part a function of availability. If everyone had a CTSV, who would want to go drive one? This is SOP for GM vehicles they want to market as special. You can probably go test a Z06, but unless you are going to take delivery, I bet you would have a hard time getting a ZR1.

I do see your point though Phil, and thanks for the invitation. Comparatively, I can see how you would be disinclined to work with someone who would not let you try the product.

I was actually more interested in driving the X6 out in front of the Katy dealership, but only because it is so odd. The proportions intrigue me. You can see it from the highway quite plainly.

Or they may know it doesn't drive like an M5 so perhaps if they can't drive it they can't see how bad it is.

I mean heck they should use that mentality for Saab because heaven knowns nobody in their right (sober) mind would buy that thing after driving it

lo_jack · #**119** 03-18-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

Or they may know it doesn't drive like an M5 so perhaps if they can't drive it they can't see how bad it is.

I mean heck they should use that mentality for Saab because heaven knowns nobody in their right (sober) mind would buy that thing after driving it

Funny you should mention Saab. I knew a lady who bought two of them after moving here from Europe. She felt it was sporty and European, and was environmentally friendly. "Certainly it gets better mileage than your domestic sports car."

I waited until she was leaving to tell her it was a GM owned 18mpg city car that actually got worse mileage than my domestic sports car, and was slower on top of that.

JCL · #**120** 03-18-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lo_jack

Funny you should mention Saab. I knew a lady who bought two of them after moving here from Europe. She felt it was sporty and European, and was environmentally friendly. "Certainly it gets better mileage than your domestic sports car."

I waited until she was leaving to tell her it was a GM owned 18mpg city car that actually got worse mileage than my domestic sports car, and was slower on top of that.

I drove a 1976 SAAB 99 2 door for a couple of years. It was a fantastic car. The paint was bad on the trunk lid (faulty factory prep), and front pads wore out quickly, but aside from that, no issues. Good performance, great mileage, excellent in the snow, very stable in crosswinds, wonderful seats. It looked a little strange to many people back in 1976.

All this was well before GM bought them and ruined the whole line. Oops, sorry, I was one of the ones here not bashing GM.

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