Ok seriously. This is getting a bit out of hand. There is no excuse for poor customer service and being intentionally aggravating to potential customers, but you do realize that CTS-v production runs are sub 5000, and even with all the problems GM has, they more than likely do not need help selling 5000 CTS-Vs? I don't blame them whatsoever for weeding out tire kickers on their limited run stuff, and I am sure we can all come up with a few other non US based companies that do likewise.

Trying to throw Camaro in there is ridiculous. Yes it has taken them far too long to bring it to market, but that is not the dealer's fault, probably not the plant's fault, and certainly a different scenario than "they won't let me drive a CTS-V." No kidding someone was great to you when they were trying to sell you an F350. They have half a million of them and they need to sell them. CTS-V sells itself, comparatively speaking.

I think you fellas are overreacting a little bit. By all means, if you don't like them, don't buy them...but I do not think it is completely genuine to equate inability to test a CTS-V to the reason the US automakers are on their knees. There are other decisions that they should be held accountable for that deserve much more attention, which you have completely overlooked in this generalization festival.

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2001 E53 3.0 5pd

Sub 5000 production numbers are still quite large, the 4.8is (I don't know how many were made, but I think it was around that number) is a fairly limited production vehicle and every BMW dealership was more than willing to let me drive one. On a side note, I went in to Passport BMW a few months ago and there was a 6-spd M5 that was in the showroom. I'm very young and was looking at $110k car. Before talking numbers or anything he already had a salesman with the keys to it pulling it out of the showroom. I've already driven plenty of M5s so I didn't want to drive it / need to, yet they were still trying to convince me to take a test drive in it (the only reason I'm not driving it is I couldn't get it insured). Same thing at a Mercedes dealership in Fla, I was getting my CLK serviced and walked into the new car showroom and started looking at a SL65 AMG (a $200+k car). Within 2 minutes someone had already given me the keys even after I said there is no way I could afford this car. It's all about customer service, if I buy another BMW I will most likely buy from Passport in MD, another Merc I'm buying from Brumos in FL, but I think I would be hard pressed to buy a Caddy after my personal experience with them. The manager has tried to get my business back after they saw how pissed I was at how I was treated, they've called me about 3 times saying that they had a CTS-v color specs I wanted unallocated that they were willing to deal on.

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2006 BMW X5 4.8is Lemans Blue/Beige/Dark Maple
-Nav, Comfort Seats, Heated Steering Wheel,
Rear Airbags, AUX Input
2009 BMW M3 Space Grey/Black/Carbon
-all options

I don't think anyone is saying this is the sole reason U.S. automakers are in the tank. In fact this may have been their practice for years. Well today things are different in case you haven't noticed. So with that being said, don't you think the automakers should changed their (oh so obvious) unsuccessful tactics to sell cars? To a point that "B" made about 60 post back....they should be kissin' some potential buyer azz right about now. Now, the Camaro comment was aimed at GM thinking that it is going to be a top tier car. They must think the CTS-V is.... which is why they have the no test drive bullsh*t. I personally could give a rats azz about a GM car. I've never owned one and with my gods continued blessings, I never will.........Phil

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2011.5 Dinan ///M3:
SSII DCT
Competition Pkg
Convenience Pkg
Premium Pkg 2
Heated Seats
Enhanced Premium Sound
Black Kidney Grills
BMW M Performance Steering Wheel
BMW Carbon Fiber Performance Spoiler
BMW Aluminum Pedals
Dinan Exhaust
Dinan Mid-Exhaust (x-pipe)
Dinan Carbon Fiber Intake
Dinan Performance Tune
Dinan Pulley Kit
Dinan CH-R Wheels
Dinan Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Braces
Arkym Front Lip
Carbon Reflectors
Lux H8 V3
Brembo 365mm BBK

Hey lo_jack, I see you are in the H-town area. Let's meet up and conduct a quick experiment. Let's meet a Momentum BMW on 59 and see if they will let us test drive the new F01 (7 series). They have one on the rack outside. It has to be a least 40k more than a CTS-V. Whatcha' think...........Phil

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2011.5 Dinan ///M3:
SSII DCT
Competition Pkg
Convenience Pkg
Premium Pkg 2
Heated Seats
Enhanced Premium Sound
Black Kidney Grills
BMW M Performance Steering Wheel
BMW Carbon Fiber Performance Spoiler
BMW Aluminum Pedals
Dinan Exhaust
Dinan Mid-Exhaust (x-pipe)
Dinan Carbon Fiber Intake
Dinan Performance Tune
Dinan Pulley Kit
Dinan CH-R Wheels
Dinan Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Braces
Arkym Front Lip
Carbon Reflectors
Lux H8 V3
Brembo 365mm BBK

Agreed. But since my first post was a slam against all US automakers, I thought it only be fair to amend my statement to reflect on the positive experience I did have with Ford.

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Being a former Pontiac Cadillac and GMC salesmen i can understand where they are coming from. Certain vehicles that we had in stock couldn't be test driven with out atleast credit being run. This helps weed out the tire kickers just looking to go out and throw a 500+HP car around on a saturday afternoon. Now i can see where OP is coming from how he feels they should be bowing down to him as well with the way things are these days. It is pretty hard to sell a 20K Pontiac with a good amount of miles on it let alone a 50K car with a lot of miles on it.

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I think another problem with not allowing test drives of the V is that it is marketed as an M5 beater. The problem though is that most people who buy M5's won't switch over to V without being allowed to drive the car and most will not negotiate the price first in order to do so. Unfortunately for GM, the M5 brand is still the benchmark for sports sedans and has a better overall reputation and image. GM and/or the dealers have to let people test drive their cars so they can see for themselves if it is better.

Also about GM dealerships. Who knows how these individual dealers are run. A few months back, a huge dealer closed it doors in my area and in less than a few weeks, another was open literally next door.

Excuse me, but without the tire kickers and consumers looking to throw around a 500hp car on a Saturday afternoon, you don't have an industry.
I am a tire kicker. I test drive cars all the time. Sometimes for friends, sometimes for myself. Guess what, car that impresses me the best wins my vote!
- Had Porsche not allowed us to test drive the Cayenne GTS in a manual transmission cause they were afraid of what we might do to the clutch, then the Cayenne GTS would not have been on the shortlist for cars we may buy. It was the drive that sold the car, not the slovenly salesman who doesn't know the difference between a V8 and inline 6.

Lets go a step further. My brother may not decide to buy the Cayenne GTS. He may get the Merc instead. But my lease on my 7 Series comes up in September. And guess what my second choice of vehicles is now behind the X5 ///M edition? And guess what car I'm going to lease if the X5 ///M edition doesn't have good lease numbers? Well, in case you hadn't guessed it, it will be a Cayenne GTS in Manual Transmission.

So here's the big difference. BMW, Audi, Mercedes knows that even a tire kicker is a potential sale and they want you to test drive their cars. The American car companies think that anyone who isn't ready to sign on the dotted line is a waste of time. And that is why the other car companies aren't suffering as bad as the American car companies.. Or at least, that's one of the reasons among many.

So as a former Cadillac and GM salesman, I can promise you that your desire to prevent the tire kickers from getting a free Saturday ride effected your bottom line. The unfortunate part is, neither you nor the dealership could qualify those numbers because you were turning away customers without even realizing it.

You want to check my credit for a test drive, sure, go ahead, it's in my pants right behind the zipper. Just be gentle.

P.S. what size bra size does your wife wear and is she into kinky sex?

-- Furthermore, could you imagine if you were selling real estate and you decided that the only people that could visit a house you are the selling broker on are those that you "pre-qualify". That all the neighborhood busy bodies who like to home shop on Saturdays are a waste of your time and energy...

Do you have any idea how many people have bought houses that never planned on it because they were "house visiting" with nothing else to do on a Saturday?

Sorry, but sometimes the stupid mentality of this type of behavior really grinds my gears, ESPECIALLY in the worst economic climate since the GREAT DEPRESSION... Double the fact that my tax money is going to these companies for bail out...

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Sorry LivinLoud.. Not to beat you up too much here.. But are you really trying to tell me that it's harder to sell a $50K car with 50 miles on it than it is to sell a $50k that you don't allow people to drive????!!!!?????

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss