Stiffening plate removal / reinstallation

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

The risk could be low or could be high, none of us know where it falls.

Agreed. But at some point collective information becomes accepted practice. Some will never change their mind, and that's fine. If it gives someone the warm and fuzzies to reuse these bolts... have at it. If it makes you feel safer or otherwise in a better place, it makes sense.

Head bolts are an apples/oranges analogy though. No one should ever reuse head bolts. There are TONS of documented cases/information of what can happen reusing them. And they are cheaper than the stiffening plate bolts/nuts anyway and not a regularly removed service item. There are no cases of any negative affects of reusing the stiffening plate fasteners except for one user here I believe who reported a squeak or noise from the plate. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just counterpointing your last post.

[X5only]

If these bolts were a dime a dozen, we certainly wouldn't be talking about whether to replace or not. They are expensive and FCPEuro has an answer for us. My strategy in replacing them with new ones is to wait until I've completed the final-final-done-done task requiring dropping the reinforcement plate. Otherwise I just re-use those bolts in the interim.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by X5only

If these bolts were a dime a dozen, we certainly wouldn't be talking about whether to replace or not.

Possibly, but I don't think it's the only reason. I think, more often than not, they get reused because it's easier to and individuals don't have access to the parts dept or WorldPac. Simple. Couple that with the real possibility of having to drop that plate 5-10 times a year and the motivations are easy to see, including cost of course.

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Even if the input were sufficient it is still conjecture so a decision to reuse the bolts is flawed.

Disagree. At what point something deserves to become standard practice is subjective and will vary widely.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Possibly, but I don't think it's the only reason. I think, more often than not, they get reused because it's easier to and individuals don't have access to the parts dept or WorldPac. Simple. Couple that with the real possibility of having to drop that plate 5-10 times a year and the motivations are easy to see, including cost of course.

Disagree. At what point something deserves to become standard practice is subjective and will vary widely.

A standard practice is not subjective. It is based on a particular set of parameters that prove it is the fact based process.

The number of times the plate is dropped a year should not have anything to do with it. Why would anyone need to drop the plate 5-6 time a year?
This is the best debate of this issue we have had since there seems to be some consensus that high cost drives the decision to reuse the bolts when it clearly should not.

[X5only]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

…..Couple that with the real possibility of having to drop that plate 5-10 times a year and the motivations are easy to see ...

That would be an X5 with serious issues. I think 5-10 times a year would be in the category of an exception rather than the norm. I've worked on my X5 since CPO warranty ended (2011 thereabouts) and I've had to drop the reinforcement plate may be 3-4 times in 8 years.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Agreed. But at some point collective information becomes accepted practice. Some will never change their mind, and that's fine. If it gives someone the warm and fuzzies to reuse these bolts... have at it. If it makes you feel safer or otherwise in a better place, it makes sense.
Collective information can become the practice. The amount of input here is insufficient to be extrapolated to an accepted practice. Even if the input were sufficient it is still conjecture so a decision to reuse the bolts is flawed.
Head bolts are an apples/oranges analogy though. No one should ever reuse head bolts. There are TONS of documented cases/information of what can happen reusing them. And they are cheaper than the stiffening plate bolts/nuts anyway and not a regularly removed service item. There are no cases of any negative affects of reusing the stiffening plate fasteners except for one user here I believe who reported a squeak or noise from the plate. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just counterpointing your last post.

Using head bolt data was intentional. The way it is apples to apples is both use torque to yield bolts and once they are torqued they can't be properly torqued again. The number of instances of failure has nothing to do with it. There are no cases that you know of where the plate bolts failed, that is different than no cases. I contend that it is so hard to justify the cost of the bolts that we jump to accept any input that even remotely supports not making the purchase. Cost should not be considered in the decision. Same input--until we know why BMW uses TTY bolts and the associated level of risk the only think we know is we saved money. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything either.

[Purplefade]

I guess it all comes down to - data, consensus, collective information, sufficiency or insufficiency aside, if you want to replace your bolts, replace them, if you don’t want to replace your bolts, don’t.

Kind of like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop, short of finding the engineers that designed the plate and the bolts and asking them their logic behind it..., the world may never know


Though it has been an enjoyable debate to follow.

[Attacking Mid]

Fastenal, Bolt Depot, etc. will sell you very similar Class 10.9 bolts for a fraction of the cost BMW charges. If you feel the need to replace them, at least pay a reasonable price for the bolts.

AM.

[crystalworks]

Very well. We'll change the terminology to common practice.

[crystalworks]

^ Thank you! I was going to order one of these bolts in my next fcp order just measure it. LoL

Thank you to oldskewel as well. I was curious if they were even tty bolts or just used in a tta application. I was going to ask what was making us assume these were tty bolts... The torquing procedure alone? I recently did the complete front suspension on the wife's e70 and a few of those use a tta torque procedure as well. But are not stretch or tty bolts.