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#61
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Also; wears out the inside edge of tires.
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2011 E70 N55 (me) 2012 E70 N63 (wife) |
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#62
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Toe out does not cause meaningfully more wear than toe in. But what it does do is make the car meaningfully more unstable to drive.
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2011 M3 2006 Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison 2004 X5 3.0i 6MT 1995 M3 S50B32 1990 325is 1989 M3 S54B32 Hers: 1989 325iX 1996 911 Turbo |
#63
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Spirited Drive -- Now rear Camber Negative
Somebody forgot to tell MY TIRES that toe out won't cause inisde edge wear. Either will cause similar tire wear, however when joints get loose the default on rear axle on BMWs is to toe out and shred inside edge. I calculated my toe to exceed 1.5° before I replaced the wishbone and ball joint I used to use .15° toe on the front but now maybe 1/3 of that. I don't use "minimum" because of dynamic loading I don't want it to cross to toe out.
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2011 E70 N55 (me) 2012 E70 N63 (wife) |
#64
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Quote:
As a general matter, dynamic toe from balljoint/bushing failure results in very bad wear patterns. Thats just the nature of things.
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2011 M3 2006 Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison 2004 X5 3.0i 6MT 1995 M3 S50B32 1990 325is 1989 M3 S54B32 Hers: 1989 325iX 1996 911 Turbo |
#65
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My worn tire pic was tongue in cheek off course, it was more funny when I thought you said only toe in will cause wear, bit yes either will.
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2011 E70 N55 (me) 2012 E70 N63 (wife) |
#66
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lol. btdt on the reading comprehension.
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2011 M3 2006 Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison 2004 X5 3.0i 6MT 1995 M3 S50B32 1990 325is 1989 M3 S54B32 Hers: 1989 325iX 1996 911 Turbo |
#67
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Quote:
Yeah it makes sense as parts wear, that the natural force going down the road PUSHES the tires out. So therefore, it is better to be slightly toe in on the rear axle. Another advantage of toe in is that it will wear the outside of the tires as oppose to the inside. Is this the same concept for toe in on the front axle? When having slight toe in on all axles, I'm guessing this allows for straight-line tracking and improve stability...?
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2003 BMW X5 3.0i -- MT5, 3.64s final gears, H&R lowering springs, K-Mac bushing kit 2007 BMW X3 3.0Si -- MT6 |
#68
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My understanding on the all toe in is since all joints will have backlash and because as an old engineering saying goes "everything is a spring".
So; to preload the joints in the most favorable way, toe in preloads the outside corners so they don't have to flip over the center. If you are toe out, then follow through this example; The left front tire will be stretching the joint to the steering rack. As you enter a right turn, the tire will go from toe out to toe in right before starting the turn. This will case the joint to go from tension to compression exactly when you start the turn giving you a moment of literally "floating" where the tire can tramlinine or just feel wishy washy. Of course "you can't win" the opposite side will do the same when you have toe in, but the outside tire gets a lot more force so will be the dominant feedback. The more toe in the more preload on the joints the less floating feeling. With toe of zero, minor differences in road conditions will change which side is favored at random.
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2011 E70 N55 (me) 2012 E70 N63 (wife) |
#69
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So that is why toe out is less stable at high speeds because it tends to wander with any steering input. With toe in, it will drive and "push" towards the centerline of the car. The "floating" feeling is the "instability" the tire will feel at speed. This seems to make sense.
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2003 BMW X5 3.0i -- MT5, 3.64s final gears, H&R lowering springs, K-Mac bushing kit 2007 BMW X3 3.0Si -- MT6 |
#70
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Well then don't wait to go anymore and save the ball parking time.
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X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior Dallas Last edited by bcredliner; 10-05-2021 at 05:24 PM. |
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