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  #61  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:38 PM
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Because far more force applied in average when braking not acceleration, but also toe out causes wandering and oversteer which is harder to keep under control.

Also; wears out the inside edge of tires.
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  #62  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:52 PM
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Toe out does not cause meaningfully more wear than toe in. But what it does do is make the car meaningfully more unstable to drive.
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  #63  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:35 PM
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Spirited Drive -- Now rear Camber Negative




Somebody forgot to tell MY TIRES that toe out won't cause inisde edge wear.

Either will cause similar tire wear, however when joints get loose the default on rear axle on BMWs is to toe out and shred inside edge.

I calculated my toe to exceed 1.5° before I replaced the wishbone and ball joint

I used to use .15° toe on the front but now maybe 1/3 of that. I don't use "minimum" because of dynamic loading I don't want it to cross to toe out.
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  #64  
Old 10-04-2021, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post



Somebody forgot to tell MY TIRES that toe out won't cause inisde edge wear.

Either will cause similar tire wear, however when joints get loose the default on rear axle on BMWs is to toe out and shred inside edge.

I calculated my toe to exceed 1.5° before I replaced the wishbone and ball joint

I used to use .15° toe on the front but now maybe 1/3 of that. I don't use "minimum" because of dynamic loading I don't want it to cross to toe out.
1.5 degrees of toe in will do about the same thing (although it won’t feel as bad).

As a general matter, dynamic toe from balljoint/bushing failure results in very bad wear patterns. That’s just the nature of things.
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  #65  
Old 10-04-2021, 10:36 PM
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My worn tire pic was tongue in cheek off course, it was more funny when I thought you said only toe in will cause wear, bit yes either will.
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  #66  
Old 10-05-2021, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
My worn tire pic was tongue in cheek off course, it was more funny when I thought you said only toe in will cause wear, bit yes either will.
lol. btdt on the reading comprehension.
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  #67  
Old 10-05-2021, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post



Somebody forgot to tell MY TIRES that toe out won't cause inisde edge wear.

Either will cause similar tire wear, however when joints get loose the default on rear axle on BMWs is to toe out and shred inside edge.

I calculated my toe to exceed 1.5° before I replaced the wishbone and ball joint

I used to use .15° toe on the front but now maybe 1/3 of that. I don't use "minimum" because of dynamic loading I don't want it to cross to toe out.
Okay...*sigh...*

Yeah it makes sense as parts wear, that the natural force going down the road PUSHES the tires out. So therefore, it is better to be slightly toe in on the rear axle. Another advantage of toe in is that it will wear the outside of the tires as oppose to the inside.

Is this the same concept for toe in on the front axle? When having slight toe in on all axles, I'm guessing this allows for straight-line tracking and improve stability...?
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  #68  
Old 10-05-2021, 11:52 AM
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My understanding on the all toe in is since all joints will have backlash and because as an old engineering saying goes "everything is a spring".

So; to preload the joints in the most favorable way, toe in preloads the outside corners so they don't have to flip over the center.

If you are toe out, then follow through this example;

The left front tire will be stretching the joint to the steering rack.

As you enter a right turn, the tire will go from toe out to toe in right before starting the turn.

This will case the joint to go from tension to compression exactly when you start the turn giving you a moment of literally "floating" where the tire can tramlinine or just feel wishy washy.

Of course "you can't win" the opposite side will do the same when you have toe in, but the outside tire gets a lot more force so will be the dominant feedback.

The more toe in the more preload on the joints the less floating feeling.

With toe of zero, minor differences in road conditions will change which side is favored at random.
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:48 PM
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So that is why toe out is less stable at high speeds because it tends to wander with any steering input. With toe in, it will drive and "push" towards the centerline of the car. The "floating" feeling is the "instability" the tire will feel at speed. This seems to make sense.
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  #70  
Old 10-05-2021, 05:16 PM
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Just sometimes a few days before i get there
Well then don't wait to go anymore and save the ball parking time.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 10-05-2021 at 05:24 PM.
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