Spirited Drive -- Now rear Camber Negative

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

That particular joint is so close to the center of the hub it takes very little wear to cause big problems.

1mm of motion translates to over 1° of toe/camber and we are aiming for values in the 1/20th of a degree.

The ball joint at the bottom will wear out and cause similar headaches but as that one wears the problems are more subtle as the preload from the spring holds it tight one way mostly.

I cannot get any toe-in no matter what adjustment I do. Even with camber at about -2 degrees, the best I can do is about 3mm toe out for the rear and cannot get any toe in. So I'm a little bit frustrated to say the least.

The wishbone ball joint was replaced I think about two years ago. I noticed I can literally move my rim forward and aft about a mm both ways with all control arm bolts tight by grabbing 6 and 3 o-clock. It might be unrealistic, but I would like to think this shouldn't move at all.


I will undo this wishbone ball joint tomorrow and see how it feels with my hand.

[andrewwynn]

If you can move the wheel by hand joints are shot. Usually the outer wishbone joint followed by the bottom main ball joint.

When there is a quick change in the angle of the wheel then it's often the rubber bushing.

You should be able to see which joint/s are moving when you grab and yaw the tire, but what I can say is it will be easy to figure out if you can shift the tire by hand.

Also age has little bearing; one buddy had his rear wishbone self destruct after less than a year. Did you use OEM? He used cheap copy parts. They did not not make it 15k mi.

[RocketyMan]

I also changed both lower ball joints with DELPHI. These were a bit of a pain. The upper wishbone was with URO brand. Which...maybe isn't the best.

Would a failed upper wishbone cause my toe to be impossible to get toe-in?

[andrewwynn]

100%

It's main job is to hold the back of the wheel out. When it fails the back of the wheel toes in, that causes the front to toe out and shred the tires.

Since the pivot point is also above center, it usually also causes camber in at the top. This issue is more cosmetic from a tire situation

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

I also changed both lower ball joints with DELPHI. These were a bit of a pain. The upper wishbone was with URO brand. Which...maybe isn't the best.

Would a failed upper wishbone cause my toe to be impossible to get toe-in?

This thread could have been a lot shorter with that info. Never use URO on suspension parts. Or Delphi, though that's better than URO. Anything with a ball joint or bushing I stick to known brands. Meyle, Lemforder, etc.

[andrewwynn]

You should absolutely check for play on that bottom ball joint as well. If you have spring pressure off you should be able to check for movement with a crowbar

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

You should absolutely check for play on that bottom ball joint as well. If you have spring pressure off you should be able to check for movement with a crowbar

I can do this pretty easily. Lower ball joint with spring pressure off would usually be up and down movement, right? 12 o clock and 6 o clock.

[andrewwynn]

Actually it was directly fore-aft.

[RocketyMan]

Well...here it is. I took out the wishbone control arm. The ball joint in it is of course very "loose" feeling--but I'm not sure how that would translate into a bad control arm. I cant feel any clicking, of course, in my hand when i'm articulating the ball joint with my fingers.

In comparison, the front tiny control arm was much stiffer articulating the joint on it.

How else would I even be able to prove the wishbone is bad just because the joint feels really loose? Is that grounds for a bad joint?

P.S. I looked up what I bought, and it is REIN brand. They were $55 for each side. Let's see if I can try with the 2 year warranty...

[crystalworks]

I would have thought the Rein would hold up. Is there any lateral play in the ball joint itself? Or it just feels loose? Wouldn't think that would cause excessive negative camber alone.

Could this be a really bad swing arm bushing(s)? Didn't see them mentioned in your first post of checks.